Darth Talon Requirements Discussion

[Guest Anonymous]

I noticed that all of the costumes which have been approved have a list of standard requirements for that costume. I wanted to start a thread where people could throw around ideas about what this costume must have, should have, and may have.

 

What do you all think some of the requirements for Darth Talon should be?

[Twi'lek Pam]

.

 

I'd love to help you out with this project. As a active Talon costumer you already know far more about it than me, but I have been studying the costume for a while now so I do have some ideas. (There's this little voice in my head that has been trying to convince me that if I go to the gym a bit more and curb my chocolate addiction, someday I could wear a Talon costume.... but it's debatable if I will ever find the self confidence or the painting assistance for that particular costume!)

 

Pam

[Guest Anonymous]

OK. I made a list of all of the elements of the costume and tried to divide them into what I thought it Must have and what it Should have. Let me know what you all think...

 

 

MUST HAVE:

 

Red Headtails with black sith tattoo designs

 

Red Twi?lek Ear caps/buds/cones... etc.

 

Red Bodypaint with black sith tattoo designs

 

Black sleeveless top with Armor plates

 

Black gloves that come to above the elbow

 

Black armor for upper arms

 

Gauntlets

 

Hand armor

 

 

Black bikini-style bottoms

 

Black belt with 4 long straps hanging down the front (mine has straps in the back as well for decency, but they are attached with Velcro so they can be removed for accuracy.)

 

Thigh-high black boots

 

Thigh Armor

 

Shin Armor

 

Foot armor

 

SHOULD HAVE:

 

 

Red Lightsaber with Legacy-style hilt, or Legacy-style hilt attached at belt

 

 

MAY HAVE:

 

Sith Contacts

 

Metal Headpiece

[Guest Anonymous]

I'd like to add to this and aid in trying to get this costume approved. I would love to see more of her and even try my hand at it in the future.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Talon

 

References/Mention (so far):

* New Force Rising (First mentioned)

* Star Wars: Legacy 0

* Legacies of Future Orders

 

* Star Wars Legacy 1: Broken, Part 1 (Cover only)

* Star Wars Legacy 2: Broken, Part 2 (First appearance)

* Star Wars Legacy 3: Broken, Part 3

* Star Wars Legacy 5: Broken, Part 4

* Star Wars Legacy 6: Broken, Part 5

* Star Wars Legacy 7: Broken, Part 6

* Star Wars Legacy 14: Claws of the Dragon, Part 1

[Guest Cleverlilminx]

Just so folks do not get confused...

 

Legion standards are for legion approved costumes. To my knowledge, as of this date, this is still not a legion approved costume.

 

If/when this changes, then we can talk about legion costume standards.

 

But by all means, have fun ladies in the meantime.

[Twi'lek Pam]

.

 

Yes, we're aware that the costume isn't approved yet. But it never hurts to design standards that can help other costumers out. I can guarantee that people will continue to make the Talon costume whether it's approved by the 501st or not. She's just THAT that cool! Besides, knowing how long it usually takes us to iron out all of the details and wording on the various standards.... if we start creating them now, perhaps we MIGHT be done by the time Talon has enough references to become an approved character!

 

 

The listing of costume components looks very good to me. My main suggestion would be to move the ear buds/caps to the required section, and I would call them buds rather than caps. (Caps suggest a cover of some sort, while bud denotes a natural thing. Jan has said that she views the buds as a part of Twi'lek female anatomy, so she draws Talon that way.) If someone can make the lekku, then the buds shouldn't be a problem, and they are in the reference pictures. I would also change the descriptive word "tribal" to "Sith" in the tattoo listings.

 

Talon is occasionally shown wearing a metal headpiece that curves beneath her lekku from the back to the sides of her head. Sometimes it appears to cover her ear buds, and sometimes it does not. It also has two thin bars that go up over the top of her head which follow the same pattern as the V shaped tattoos that are seen on the top of her head when she is not wearing the device. It looks mechanical rather than decorative. I wouldn't call it a required element... but I would put it in a May Have section, since we know that details always make a big difference!

 

Other than that... I would say it's about time to move on to writing the detailed descriptions for each piece. Very well done so far!

 

Pam

[Guest Anonymous]

Just so folks do not get confused...

 

Legion standards are for legion approved costumes. To my knowledge, as of this date, this is still not a legion approved costume.

 

If/when this changes, then we can talk about legion costume standards.

 

But by all means, have fun ladies in the meantime.

 

I think Courtney's motivation for starting this thread is that we've heard getting a start on these standards is helpful in getting the character approved as a 501st "character". She's been encouraged to do so.

 

I think it looks great Courtney. Let me know if you need my help.

[The Clone Emperor]

Courtney,

 

I have followed your costume progress since your first appearance as Darth Talon. Your costume and your progress since then is admirable.

 

Thank you for having the patience and perseverance to see this through the proper procedure. It might be a little bureaucratic, but it gives me the tyme I need to feel secure about putting my support behind a new character in the Legion.

 

One issue I have when dealing with new costumes is sincerity of purpose; that the individual may be more concerned with being the first than being the best. That bragging rights (and/or sales) are more important than accuracy, trooping, or the camaraderie our organisation is all about.

 

I have no such worries with you. In fact, it looks as though you are already contributing to this community. I signed in today to ask you to suggest Darth Talon specifications. Seeing that you have taken this initiative--after asking first--is wonderful.

 

You have my full support. I will present Darth Talon to the Legion Council for consideration next week. With your example, I am confident that the character will be supported. When it is, you will already have my approval for your costume. Troop at least once a year and you are golden.

 

Be well and welcome to The Flagship Eclipse,

Thomas

[ghostred7]

woohoo...good work guys. Courtney, as always, your stuff totally rocks. Great details and research shown. It's certainly obvious your homework was well done and thoroughly followed.

 

I totally agree w/ Thomas here. No one should have the "ooh...i gotta be the first" attitude unless they have the accuracy and perfection to back it up. The drive to set standards can't be rushed. I am doing everything in my power on my Bandon costume to make it as perfect as i'm capable (so much, i almost bought a real kevlar fiber armor set up from police surplus to disassemble/use). It is clear to me that Courney has done just that....drove to be the best.

 

That being said....

 

I do have a suggestion for the "Must Have" section. For the body, i *personally* don't think someone should be gigged should she be self conscience about showing too much skin.

 

What about it being a body suit w/ appropriate markings instead of body paint? Don't get me wrong, i'd rather see the skin any time, but out of respect for those that may have a scar/blemish/etc or are just not wanting to show that much skin (i.e. they opt for 1 piece instead of bikini when swimming), should there be an alternative?

 

I would also move the contacts to may have instead of should have because not everyone can wear contacts and it could potentially detur those that may want to do this (if i was a girl, i would want to).

 

In either case....great job!!!

 

Thoughts on suggestions?

[Twi'lek Pam]

Very cool post, Thomas. Thank you again for supporting and championing the EU costumes. I doubt we could have made it as far as we have without your support at the top levels of the legion.

 

Congratulations, Courtney.... and good luck!

 

 

Pam

[The Clone Emperor]

Because of medical concerns contacts are not required in the Legion, but strongly encouraged for characters that have/would have used them on screen.

 

The body paint/body suit requirement is debatable. I see it as thus;

 

Surely no screen villainess would be filmed in a body suit when body paint would look more realistic. And since we are attempting to match screen quality, the body suit would seem inappropriate for a 501st grade costume.

 

Folk that are self conscious about their body should not choose such a revealing character. It creates an unnecessary conflict, especially when there are so many other choices available.

 

Be well,

Thomas

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you Thomas, and everyone else for your help and suggestions.

 

I have tried to make the appropriate changes to the Must Have/Should Have/May Have sections of my earlier post... of course, this is all just an effort to get everything in order and was not meant to cause any issues with regulations of the detachment.

 

I changed the Earcaps section to reflect Earcaps/Ear Buds. If the artist believes they are ear buds, and are natural to the species, then I think it should be included, but in my research for this character I have read that "Both males and females have human-like ears , but females typically wear elaborate caps or head-bindings fitted with ear coverings made of bone or other material, leading to the belief among some casual observers that the coverings are actually their ears." Of course, I read this on Wikipedia in the article about Twi'leks, and I don't know how reliable a source this is considered.

 

 

I will try to continue updating this as more suggestions and reference images come in, and as time permits.

[Twi'lek Pam]

.

 

The ears covered by caps vrs. natural buds/cones debate has been running for years, and everyone has a different opinion based on what they read, where they read it, and what their personal preferences are. As far as accurate information goes, Wikipedia is not a reliable source. It's great fun for reading and somewhat helpful for research... but you have to take everything written there with a grain of salt because ANYONE can go in and edit the articles. I've even seen folks who work for Dark Horse go in and change inaccurate information about their own comics to make it correct, only to have someone else put the wrong information back again!

 

 

Here is an old quote from Jan. It predates Talon, so it's a discussion about Aayla instead... but it does show her views on the subject!

 

Ok. It seems to me from what I've seen and read about female Twileks that the cones on the sides of their heads are their 'ears'. There was a story in Tales from Jabba's Palace where their ears are described--and they are different from the male ears. Different evolution, yes, but then the males have those pouches under their chins and those funny fleshy things attacked to their necks. The females wouldn't look quite to fetching with those, eh?

 

So--long story short--if you are going to draw Aayla without the head dress--then draw her with the cones and not ears, cos that's how she evolved.

 

 

Hmm... she called them cones instead of buds. Time to change the name on the standards again?

 

 

Pam

[ghostred7]

Folk that are self conscious about their body should not choose such a revealing character. It creates an unnecessary conflict, especially when there are so many other choices available.

 

Groovy....i actually agree but know someone that chooses the body suit, which is why i asked b/c she already does Talon. She has a burn scar (house fire) and thus chooses to cover w/ body suit.

 

Thx for the info. I am excited to see Courney on the 501st page. Lemme know if you want me to do up some digital sabers on ur pix when they're ready.

[Guest Sakara]

Folk that are self conscious about their body should not choose such a revealing character. It creates an unnecessary conflict, especially when there are so many other choices available.

 

Groovy....i actually agree but know someone that chooses the body suit, which is why i asked b/c she already does Talon. She has a burn scar (house fire) and thus chooses to cover w/ body suit.

 

Thx for the info. I am excited to see Courney on the 501st page. Lemme know if you want me to do up some digital sabers on ur pix when they're ready.

 

i think it comes down to those who can do the costume and those who cant. Im one of those who although adores the costume simply doesnt have the body anymore to do it. and thus cant do it with justice..so ill leave it to those who can

I saw the other cool Talon at C4 with the bodysuit and although it did look good it was still obvious that it was a bodysuit sadly.

Im always on the look out for some sort of bodysuit that could be painted with latex or something to make it look more like skin and thus have the tattoos permanently drawn on, but so far my experiments haven't worked.

[Guest Sakara]

i was thinking she had a headpiece that only covered the back of her head and lekku, you dont see it all the time due to the way the images are shaded...shes nearly always in half shadow or darkness!

id think this make disguising the join between real head and fake lekku alot easier, at least at the front and sides.

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/4d/Scbd8.jpg

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=14-070&p=3

[Guest Anonymous]

Folk that are self conscious about their body should not choose such a revealing character. It creates an unnecessary conflict, especially when there are so many other choices available.

 

Groovy....i actually agree but know someone that chooses the body suit, which is why i asked b/c she already does Talon. She has a burn scar (house fire) and thus chooses to cover w/ body suit.

 

Thx for the info. I am excited to see Courney on the 501st page. Lemme know if you want me to do up some digital sabers on ur pix when they're ready.

 

i think it comes down to those who can do the costume and those who cant. Im one of those who although adores the costume simply doesnt have the body anymore to do it. and thus cant do it with justice..so ill leave it to those who can

I saw the other cool Talon at C4 with the bodysuit and although it did look good it was still obvious that it was a bodysuit sadly.

Im always on the look out for some sort of bodysuit that could be painted with latex or something to make it look more like skin and thus have the tattoos permanently drawn on, but so far my experiments haven't worked.

 

I have only seen one such body suit for a non-star wars related costume that ever looked real. She was a character from Breath of Fire II called Kat and well... just see for yourself.

 

http://images.cosplay.com/showphoto.php?photo=888211

http://images.cosplay.com/showphoto.php?photo=888187

http://members.cosplay.com/costume/37672/

 

I'm VERY impressed with the overall effect and am wondering if it could be replicated. Overall Talons body paint wouldn't take a huge amount of time with the proper stencils and an airbrush.

[Guest Sakara]

Yeah now THAT is an awesome bodysuit, thats what i mean, you cant see the bodysuit unless you really look for the seams.....tho when you do see them ( on the shoulders) they suddenly become obvious..and then i cant stop not looking for them lol

The only way i could see round that is with Talon cutting the shoulder seams into one of the tattoos, so the seams matches the tattoo lines...and then use lots of skintape!

[Twi'lek Pam]

Black belt with 4 long straps hanging down the front (mine has straps in the back as well for decency, but they are attached with Velcro so they can be removed for accuracy.)

 

 

Great news!

 

As of Legacy issue 17, we can make a new addition to the "May Have" section of the standards: Talon is wearing a metal plate and four straps on the BACK of her belt in addition to those in the front. (Sorry I can't scan the reference images right now. My computer desk is undergoing renovations, so my scanner isn't hooked up.)

 

That issue also reveals more of the tattoo patterns on her arms, hands, and legs.... and even lets her slip into something a bit more comfortable for a little while!

 

Pam

[Guest CAndyman]

...You have my full support. I will present Darth Talon to the Legion Council for consideration next week. With your example, I am confident that the character will be supported. When it is, you will already have my approval for your costume. Troop at least once a year and you are golden.

...

 

Has there been any progress on this front? I have a friend that is interested in pursuing this character, however she is also interested in Legion membership.

[Twi'lek Pam]

Has there been any progress on this front? I have a friend that is interested in pursuing this character, however she is also interested in Legion membership.

 

 

As far as I know, Talon has not yet been accepted for membership. I haven't asked the leadership folks directly, but my conjecture is that there are two main issues that we are waiting to see resolved. First, there aren't enough references for her yet. There is a Darth Talon figure due out in 2008, however, which should provide us with sufficient references. And, while there are some terrific Talon costumes out there, we don't yet one that is truly accurate to the references. Both are issues that can be resolved in time, and I believe that eventually Talon will become an accepted 501st character.

 

In the meantime, I'll repeat what we've said many times: If you really want to make a certain costume, then make it! I don't think membership in any group should dictate what we as costumers truly want to create.

 

If your friend wants to ensure that she WILL have a 501st accepted costume, then I recommend that she should consider an already accepted costume. There are some great options out there that she might enjoy. Besides, the Talon costume won't be appropriate for all events (and she won't want to do all that painting all the time!), so it's good to have a less revealing and less time-intensive backup costume for events where slinky outfits aren't welcome!

 

Pam

[Guest CAndyman]

Thanks Pam!

 

I figured as much, and you're right Talon is a bit racey for many occasions,

she was also considering a Mara or possibley an Officer which would certainly be more versatile as far as event use.

 

I can't wait to se it become official though Darth Talon is such a cool character!

[Guest Anonymous]

[

In the meantime, I'll repeat what we've said many times: If you really want to make a certain costume, then make it! I don't think membership in any group should dictate what we as costumers truly want to create.

 

 

Pam

 

 

Thank you for having the patience and perseverance to see this through the proper procedure. It might be a little bureaucratic, but it gives me the tyme I need to feel secure about putting my support behind a new character in the Legion.

 

One issue I have when dealing with new costumes is sincerity of purpose; that the individual may be more concerned with being the first than being the best. That bragging rights (and/or sales) are more important than accuracy, trooping, or the camaraderie our organisation is all about.

 

Be well and welcome to The Flagship Eclipse,

Thomas

These two statements while not perse directed to me, is a deep thought. In the beginning I was detered from wanting to do a costume that I had an interest in making. Yes it is not 501st approved but i was proud not for being one of the first but for the pride it gave me in learning costuming. I figure Shadowguards will have a long wait cause of the lack of references.

 

Sorry to have hijacked the thread there was just a lot of good quotes in this one.

 

Thank you.

 

Sovereign Protector

TR-4126

Lucious Talvloinne

[Guest Anonymous]

I think for official recognition by 501st, body paint (or pickling in a highly concentrated tub of red kool aid) is a must, however as the Darth Talon with the bodysuit at C4, I do not think it was 'sad' that I was wearing a bodysuit or an 'unnecessary conflict' with the aesthetics of general Star Wars costuming. Like most of you, I think Darth Talon is awesome and do not think I or anyone else should be discouraged from wearing the costume with or without a bodysuit because of certain circumstances, just like someone with a little extra weight shouldnt be forbidden from being in the 501st with a stormtrooper. I dont think I've seen any overweight stormtroopers in the movies (Spaceballs maybe, lol)....does that also create an unecessary conflict with 501st standards?

 

Secondly, not everyone has a makeup artist or even a friend to help them. I wore Talon 4 days and had no one to paint me cept myself, bodysuit made it less a hassle (not to mention the fact that it was freezing in L.A. ). There was no way I was going to be able to paint all of those hard to reach places by myself, or spend 4 hours trying to do it everyday. It took long enough doing the places I COULD reach!

 

Thirdly as Madhorizons said, some people may have burns or scars. I know of a girl that wants to do the Leia metal bikini but was concerned about the scars on her body. Costuming is supposed to be fun, not bureaucratic high standards, unless it's like an official 501st function. I was not dressed as Talon as part of the 501st , so yeah...

 

My point is, for 501st, yes, bodypaint.

For general non 501st love of the costume, bodysuit isnt all that bad.

[Tags]

I am currently working on a Darth Talon costume, I was thinking about using these items, the problem is... do they fit the requirements. Anyway this part of the outfit, boots, top... bikini style bottoms... ;>

 

If the top and boots are no go... I'm open for suggestions... Like I said though this is only part of it, the head piece and such is under construction. I am looking into different pair of boots however... ; / that should be fun. I will be using body paint just need to find something that will work well.

 

Spike! This is the bikini style bottom and the skirt.

 

This the top and bottom, mounted on a mold...

 

These are some boots I have now... I do have my eye on some new ones however.

 

On the other hand, I do have a pair of these, Have to throw a buckle on em to keep em up though.

 

Once the head is ready, I'll see what I can do...