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Atris in the 501st

Guest Anonymous

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Guest Sakara

In the game Atris ends up with a Red Lightsaber as she fights The Exile........


just my extra two pence.......

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When fighting Atris as a Light Exile, her sabre is indeed red;



However, this clip suggests that when enguaging a Dark Exile, Atris is outfitted with a blue sabre.



But sabre colour alone does not determine a force sensetive being's alignment. Just as a SW character's alignment alone does not determine if it will be accepted as a costume for 501st membership.


As a general rule, three separate references from three separate LFL comissioned sources are required. This serves not only the need to flesh out the complete and consistant look of a character, but also to establish the character's prominence in the SW Universe.


There are members of the 501st who actually believe that a character's popularity is a measure of the success of a costume. (I have noticed very few who hold this belief actually make their own costumes.) While I strongly maintain that a character's popularity and the success of a costumer's work are two completely separate issues, tthe related issue of prominence must still be considerred when determining a good fit with the 501st Legion.


For instance, t would be hard to sell a character for 501st consideration to the Legion Council that only appeared in the course of a sequel of a video game for one round, who had no individual name, and no significant dialogue. Any number of KOTOR Sith henchmen come to mind.



Currently, new characters that seem to be a good match for the 501st must first gather full reference to define both their alligance and appearence. Then at least one stunning costume example is need to champion the character's cause.


There's no guarantee that Atris will become a 501st accepted costume. As I see it, the argument of her allegiance is a little grey, but not unworkable. In favour of her acceptance is the fine example Sakara has alerted us to;


I'm impressed by the boot details. Hand her a Holocron prop and a red blade, and I'd say she is beginning her descent into the Dark Side.


I say beginning because I believe the KOTOR II developers had more in mind for Atris. My friend at activision has supplied us with full renders of what I am now guessing was meant to be the Dark Side version of her character;



I have been hesitant to share these images here because they are "off the radar" and could not possibly be used in consideration for 501st membership at this tyme.


Like many games, the story of KOTOR II suffered under its production deadline. I suspect the view we were presented of Atris in the released game was only a glimpse of what her character was intended to be. I believe that it is this unfinished nature of her character has made this debate harder to settle.


Be well,


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Atris was going to turn into Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty? Well that changes everything! :wink:


I like the Atris character, she has a nice level of character depth given the short time she actually appears, but she's just not a villan to my eye.

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Guest Anonymous

Just to back Thomas up, those renders are from an earlier vision of the game in which Atris was, in fact, known as "Darth Traya." The only real remnants of this IN the game are Kreia's allusion to there always needing to be a "Darth Traya" and that Atris might be the new edition. You never see that costume render in the game itself. It was dropped in favor of Kreia retaining the "Traya" title. Which, I must say, in my opinion works far better for the game. Kreia is the real mover and shaker of The Sith Lords and it is good she remained so. :)


- Carolyn

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Guest braea_kast

I agree with Thomas wholly...


But back to Darth Cadeus' comment, stating that I had already said Atris was already Darth Traya... I said no such thing... I gave the "exact" lines per the KOTORII video game. I'll post that part again here so that it can be read again...






Atris: "I am Atris, Jedi Master... the last historian of the Jedi, the last of the Jedi."


Kreia: "Those are titles, words you cling to as the darkness falls around you."


Atris: "You are that which has attacked the Jedi... you are Sith."


Kreia: "Sith is a title yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe. For you... It is different. Know that there once was a Darth Traya. And she cast aside that role, was exiled, and found a new purpose. But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal. You have been betrayed in your heart, and will betray in turn. You have bathed in the knowledge of the Sith. But there is not enough truth in such teachings... but it will be a step for you."


Atris: "How did it happen?"


Kreia: "Search your heart. It was never battle that called to you. Never battle that caused you to fall. Malachor V has touched many things, and it casts its echoes still."


Atris: "Why did she/he betray me?"


Kreia: "You betrayed yourself. Do not blame the exile. And unlike you and I, there is still a chance that one may be saved. The one that you cast out."



Basically what Kreia/Darth Traya is saying is that there will always be someone who holds the knowledge of betrayal and there will always be a Darth Traya... It may not necessarily be her.. Sure, she felt betrayed by the Exile by going to war against the Mandalorians, BUT Bao-Dor also felt betrayed by the Exile by allowing (with the proper influence) Mandalore on the ship and using his assisstance over his... Then there is Atton, who's hatred for Mical (The Disciple) made him feel betrayed because he felt that HE was the one who was supposed to protect her and no one else, due to secrectly falling in love with her...


Unfortunately, the software company left us hanging on quite a few storylines with a lot of characters that might, or might not have immediately have placed them in the EU or the Rebel Legion... I remember the very first time I played the game and I reached the end, I went... That's all?!?!?!? What the?!?!?! What happened to Atton, Mira, Bao-Dor, HK-47, T3-M4, Mandalore, and... where'd they go???


Anywho.... Again, the KOTOR girls going to bed... I have to drive 2+ hours to a birthday party for a 10 year old boy (surprise party) in the morning, and I need some winks.


Take care all of my friiends...

May the Force Serve You ALL Well...



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Guest Anonymous

We'll just have to wait and see on some things, Team Gizka is working on the KOTOR 2 restoration project.




They took the missing portions of the game, that we're on the disk and are attempting to piece them back into place.

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Guest Anonymous

And those hanging storylines is one of the reasons I (and I am sure you, most likely?) am looking forward to the eventual release of the Team Gizka Restoration Mod. :) Have a good time at the b-day party!

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Guest Anonymous

My wife would like to do the white Atris costume with a view to getting into the 501st. Has this thread reached a conclusion yet or is it still unclear about this character?


I have been trying to get her to join the 501st for a long time but she wasn't interested until she realised that there were some femanine costumes out there that had a feminine look. She is chinese and 6ft in height so would really look the part.


My case for including Atris in the 501st are as follows:-


1) Atris is a Jedi Master. In the game, she appears as a woman full of self-righteousness and bitterness towards the Exile for having run off to join the Revanchist, against the wishes of the Council. As the game progresses, it becomes clear that Atris' bitterness towards the Exile comes from her inability to accept that her own views, and those of the Council re the wrongness of Revan's joining the war, could have been wrong. Her bitterness and anger have led her down a dark path, so much so that when the Jedi Council decides to meet secretly to decide on how best to tackle Nihilus et al, she leaks information of their whereabouts (Katarr) to the Sith, led by Nihilus and Sion. Nihilus destroys the *entire* world of Katarr, and all the assembled Jedi there as a result. The sole survivor is Visas Marr, whom he takes as his apprentice.


2) Atris has secretly hoarded Jedi and Sith artifacts on Telos 4. She claims to be rebuilding the Jedi order and academy, but has surrounded herself with Echani handmaidens, who are all (save for one, which fact Atris doesn't know) not Force-Sensitive. She spends much time studying the knowledge of the Sith, and is slowly corrupted - but refuses to acknowledge to herself that she HAS been corrupted.


3) In her determination to draw out the Sith (whom she believes herself destined to destroy), she lures the Exile back from the Outer Rim, and places huge bounties on the Exile so that the Exile becomes a moving target. Atris is finally confronted by Kreia (Darth Traya), who shows her that she has been living a lie and that she has truly fallen. Atris then embraces her new, Dark persona entirely. She kills all the Handmaidens in her employ. The Exile then arrives and they face off against each other: some dialogue follows during which the Exile convinces Atris that all is not lost, and that she can return to the light. Atris is somewhat equivocal at first, but eventually lets the Exile lead her back. She pays a heavy price for it, though - she remains in the Academy on Telos 4 at the mercy of her Sith holocrons, while the Exile goes off to confront Traya and Sion at Malachor V.


4) In terms of whether Atris can fit into the 501st, I think there is much to be said for her inclusion. Atris, like Revan and Darth Traya (who are in the 501st) is effectively a 'self-radicalized' Jedi-turned-Sith. Just because she did not proclaim herself to be Sith the way Revan and Traya did does not make her any less Sith. She *acted* like one, used their methods. It does not matter whether she did so to SERVE the Jedi: Revan went Dark in order to UNITE the galaxy and to strengthen it against an external foe (as stated by Michal, the Apprentice in KOTOR 2) that only he seemed to know about. Still, his methods were Sith methods even though his objective may have been for the greater good in the ultimate.


5) Kreia (Traya) on the other hand, self-radicalized because she saw the Force as being the ultimate evil, and obsessed with destroying the Force. She says as much in KOTOR 2 - she wanted to create wounds in the Force, where its echoes could travel and never be heard. Her hatred for the Force develops to the point where she is more than prepared to betray, repeatedly, in order to achieve her objectives - especially following her own betrayal at the hands of her two apprentices, Nihilus and Sion.


6) Atris' lack of 'universal' recognition as a Sith should not bar her from the 501st either. While Atris is probably more accurately described as a Dark Jedi, there is at least one Dark Jedi character that is 501st approved: Asajj Ventress. Similarly, Mara Jade.


7) Since Atris' character shares both the elements of self-radicalization (for ostensibly noble purposes) and Dark Jedi orientation with at least four current 501st acceptable characters, I do not see any logical reason why she should be excluded.

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Guest Daritha

You have some good points. But the question is: Has Atris ever considere that she using Sith techniques? Even for a greater good? It is a little time now since I player KotOR II so I don't relly remember any of her "great words".


I think Atris could be put in the category of Imperial Knights. You can't really be sure. Neither a good nor a bad one. She stands in the gray shadow. So I suppose she could be used for 501st as well as for Rebel Legion. The latter has accepted Atris as a formal costume yet. For the RL the decision wasn't so difficult since she's officially a Jedi Master. ^^


To the 501st CRL (link) Atris isn't accepted ... but what about Visas Marr or Lumiya? The latter isn't accepted now either but I think your whife could fit in these roles too ... ?

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Guest Anonymous

I am hoping that our senior officers can consider my points and accept Atris as a 501st Character. In the mean time we are going ahead with making the costume as a finished costume will also be required.

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Guest Anonymous

If my memory serves me correct, the Atris says to the Exile during one of their confrontations (after Atris comes clean about her fall) that she is 'no longer Atris', and that Atris is no longer her name. What she means by this is unclear, though given the original game intent to make her Darth Traya, it could have meant that she saw herself as Darth Traya (or at least a Sith, in substance if not in form).


This is about as close as we get to a full-on admission by Atris that she is using Sith methods, and that she *is* Sith.

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Guest StungunMoy

Hmm that will be interesting to see whether they decide to allow Atris to be a 501st approved costume or not. Has anyone attempted to try and get it approved?

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I do hope that this discussion goes two ways, that individuals will give real consideration to the points offered by "senior" officers on the topic.


This is the fallen Jedi Master Atris after assuming the role of Darth Traya


An individual working on the port of KOTOR II from the gaming platform to PC presented this, along with all the grey background renders of KOTOR characters you see floating on the internet. (I met the man a prop workshop several years ago and was directed to his files for dissemination.)


However, I never promoted the complete set of Atris's fall to the Dark Side as that storyline was never completed. (In brief, Kriea would have either renounced or is otherwise become unable to return to the title of Darth Traya. In the vacuum, Atris falls and assumes the roll.)


If your sole intent is make a costume for 501st recognition, then I recommend an approved costume, like the Sith Lord Darth Traya, (who began as a Sith Lord, had a moment of soul searching as Kreia, and returned to her role as Sith Lord.)


If there is a costume you simply want to do, do it. If done well, such a costume might win a costume contest. Or not. These things are fickle, there are no guarantees.


I am not against a well-done Jedi Master (white librarian costume) Atris in the Legion. The lady from Britain at Celebration Europe was especially well done, down to the lightsabre. But I would be responsible for fielding the backlash. And there would be backlash. (If you could only be a fly on the wall on the endless prattle surrounding Clone Wars character acceptance, you might wonder where the fun of being a Legion member went to. I do.)


I can deal with backlash, so long as I believe in the costume and appropriateness of the character behind it. I believe the points raised in this thread are valid in theory, but require an excellent costume with no expense spared to be put into practice in a Legion.


Good luck.


¿Can someone quote Atris's final words from the game?

¿Are they scripted--one possible set of text, or does she have several possible dialogues, depending on your actions?

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you very much for those excellent points and insights into the decision making process. I apprecieate all the hard work you do for us behind the scenes (we all do!).


Well I the material has been purchased and the costume will be going through the production stages soon. We will definately spare no expense and do our best to produce an excellent costume to do Atris justice. My wife has a good height (6ft) to carry off this costume and I think she really will look the part in it. Anyway I will let you be the judge once it is completed.


It is a real honour to be part of the 501st family and my life has not been the same since the day I joined (and I have never been nagged as much by my wife or had so little money left in my bank account!!) portioning time between cosume making, trooping and family is not easy and I appoligise to my family for not always getting my priorities right at times!!


My son suffers from Autism and recently started saying his first words and I am please to say "Star Wars" was one of the first!!

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I'm finding this discussion to be quite fascinating. Since I don't play video games, I learn the intricacies of the game characters through conversations and debates such as this one. It's always interesting to see how those conversations develop.


(And if I had the Dark Side at my command right now, I would use it to utterly destroy the fly that has gotten into my classroom and keeps buzzing around me while I'm trying to eat my lunch and catch up online!)


Pam :-)

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FWIW - Atris is already an accepted Rebel Legion character.



Here are some interesting tidbits. Found a restoration of the Atris' fall. NOTE - this is NOT how the game was released and cannot be considered an argument IMO....although does make for an interesting watch.


This *I THINK* is what the in-game conversation is like, but it is guided by dialogue. I haven't played it in quite some time.


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I for myself think: Atris never used a red lightsaber or wear any black clothes. I know, the outer appearance isn't a sign of falling to the Dark Side but it's so often used in comics/films/games that you can bet on it. Even Starkiller changed his outfit to lighter colors when he turns good.. And we see Atris only with white robes.


As for the Imperial Knights are Imperial simply to the fact of being an "Imperial" Knight I would recommend Atris to be a Light Side character. She's not evil in the end, just twisted.

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