Inaccurate Belt Straps? Share your thoughts.

[Guest Kilryth]

Every armor kit that I've seen has had the leather belts attached together by a small O-ring (the belts are running through the o-rings). This looks good and all, and it looks accurate when you first look at it. See the reference image for how we commonly link the belt together with the small o-ring(s):

 

 

I think I may have noticed something new about the Revan KOTOR reference images: O-rings on the sides appear to have a black background behind them and nothing running through them. I'm talking about the small O-rings on the belts to the left/ring of the big o-ring. There's a black background behind them. See below.

 

 

Upon even closer inspection, I noticed that the belting between the two o-rings seems a little thicker, if you look at the edges of the belting.. it looks like either a thick edge, trim of some sort, or that artificial lighting/shadowing thing again. The edges look different between the two o-rings on the side. Here are some more photos showing the black background behind the o-rings and the different edge/trim along the belt:

 

 

 

What do you think? The CRL does not specify HOW the o-rings are connected to the belt; just that they are there. Should the O-Rings be layered on top of the belt, with no fabric passing through them, or should we continuing doing it the way we have been? I think both should be acceptable in the CRL, personally.

[DarthTagion]

I'm having a hard time actually following what you're suggesting. But I would like to understand.

 

With regards to the picture shown above of an actual comment, I believe I posted that the black piece would look a lot more accurate if it were thicker.

 

The image on the CRL is of my build before I added some length and used more accurate rings, you'll notice the inner strap is thicker.

 

 

Are you suggesting we try a different approach to portraying it accurately?

 

 

Edit: Re reading this but I'll leave my above text.

 

I believe this is the result of a common issue with the costume. The game is made in a build that doesn't use heavy lighting and has gradient textures to create false shadows. While I believe a costume done well with a black fabric behind it probably would be fine to approve. Our method of approval thus far has been rings with no backing behind. Similar issues have come up in discussions of black vs. silver vs. gray for areas of the boots, armor pieces ect. which I see you mentioned.

[Guest Kilryth]

I'm having a hard time actually following what you're suggesting. But I would like to understand.

 

With regards to the picture shown above of an actual comment, I believe I posted that the black piece would look a lot more accurate if it were thicker.

 

The image on the CRL is of my build before I added some length and used more accurate rings, you'll notice the inner strap is thicker.

 

 

Are you suggesting we try a different approach to portraying it accurately?

 

Edit: Re reading this but I'll leave my above text.

 

I believe this is the result of a common issue with the costume. The game is made in a build that doesn't use heavy lighting and has gradient textures to create false shadows. While I believe a costume done well with a black fabric behind it probably would be fine to approve. Our method of approval thus far has been rings with no backing behind. Similar issues have come up in discussions of black vs. silver vs. gray for areas of the boots, armor pieces ect. which I see you mentioned.

 

I was wondering whose build that was on the CRL. I'm glad you understood what I was talking about; sorry for not marking up the photos. Just to be clear, I'm talking about the o-rings that normally connect two sections of leather belts, on the side of the torso. I think that those o-rings are not actually being used to connect the belting, but are decorative instead.

 

I think the black background behind the belt o-ring may be part of the costume design, since the other O-rings are transparent/"see thru". If you look closely at the O-rings in the waistline, you'll see the hakama "shadows" and pleats continue through the insides of the o-rings... so the designers were certainly capable of making the inside of the belt o-rings transparent.

 

Also, there is no sign of fabric/belting wrapping inside of the o-rings on the belts. Instead, the ring appears to be setting on top of the belt as a decoration. Kind of strange, I must admit.. but that's how it appears to me. Do you still think this is some sort of shadow / light effect? I think the trim/edging of the belt in that section may be lighting/shadowing.. but I can't explain not having anything wrapping around inside the o-ring.

 

I just wanted to bring this up before I start work on my belt.

[DarthTagion]

I can explain it. They didn't have to actually build it!

 

Jokes aside, I am very interested on your take of this, and here is what I encourage you to do:

 

Make a mock-up, possibly using the actual materials you plan to for best results, and create the section in a sampling.

 

If you do this, snap some awesome photos and share, you can bring some better light to this.

 

I think that falls in line with making a critique and also being able to provide a solution (as a better way to problem solving).

 

Frankly, if you do it and do it well, I would consider doing it on my own rig, and a few others likely would as well as we try to improve the costume.

 

But before we go discussing it further, I would suggest giving us a visual sample of your plan. Sketches would be good, a real sample best I think.

[Guest Kilryth]

I can explain it. They didn't have to actually build it!

 

Jokes aside, I am very interested on your take of this, and here is what I encourage you to do:

 

Make a mock-up, possibly using the actual materials you plan to for best results, and create the section in a sampling.

 

If you do this, snap some awesome photos and share, you can bring some better light to this.

 

I think that falls in line with making a critique and also being able to provide a solution (as a better way to problem solving).

 

Frankly, if you do it and do it well, I would consider doing it on my own rig, and a few others likely would as well as we try to improve the costume.

 

But before we go discussing it further, I would suggest giving us a visual sample of your plan. Sketches would be good, a real sample best I think.

 

Lol great explanation, and thanks for hearing me out. I'll certainly sketch something up, and I'll throw something together if I can find some time to. I'm currently weighing the options myself.

[Ketchup]

I like this interpretation of the belt pieces and would welcome further insight!

[Guest Kilryth]

I did some experimenting at home with a cheap vinyl belt and some rings. Unfortunately, I didn't have any metal rods, so I lined up nails... nowhere near the effect... but whatever. I threw this together really fast and sloppy just to see how the basic concept would look.

 

Here is what two rings on top of a single belt would look like:

 

 

Something looks off about it; too plain or something.

 

So then I put a second layer of leather between the two rings, cutting the leather out around the shape of the rings:

 

 

This looked a lot better once it was layered on the belt, as you can see I sloppily laid them on the belt below:

 

 

I had a better picture than this but accidently deleted it, doh! Anyway, this picture has nails beside of the belts because I didn't have any metal rods. I was curious to see if it would look good with metal there. When you look at the rendering of Revan's belt, the belt trim between the two rings appears to be the same metallic color as all the rings on his outfit, leaving me to question "Is that metal trim on the edges of the belt between the rings?" That's why I put the nails there... VERY poorly thrown together, but with some imagination: I think a metal trim could look nice there, if done properly.

 

Anyhow... I think the two metal rings with a second layer of belting cut out looks good and may possibly be more accurate to the in-game costume design. The metal trim is still one of those "Is it a lighting/shadow effect, or is it metal?" questions lol.

 

I'm leaning towards doing something like this for my belts, as I like the look of it and think it matches up well with the rendering. What do you think? Also, do you think I'd have trouble getting approved?

[Ketchup]

I think I get the gist of what you're trying to do, and I LIKE IT.

 

It does look more accurate, IMO. Now that I think about it, I was actually thinking of doing something similar (not with the metal strips on the side, though, but perhaps with some silvery fabric or vinyl). I hadn't looked too close at the other Revan belts to notice what their actual makeup was. You'll have to see if that will lay flat when all is said and done, you may want to mount it to the back with something that pivots.

[Guest Kilryth]

I think I get the gist of what you're trying to do, and I LIKE IT.

 

It does look more accurate, IMO. Now that I think about it, I was actually thinking of doing something similar (not with the metal strips on the side, though, but perhaps with some silvery fabric or vinyl). I hadn't looked too close at the other Revan belts to notice what their actual makeup was. You'll have to see if that will lay flat when all is said and done, you may want to mount it to the back with something that pivots.

 

Glad you like it. I like the idea of getting something that pivots, I hadn't thought that far yet.

 

My concern with the metal was the flexibility also. I'm debating whether or not to include the metal strips. If it's done right, it could compliment it; but it would look awful if done poorly (like the nails LOL). I'm thinking some type of small gauge, soft metal wire might do the trick.. too bad I can't weld lol.

 

BTW, if anyone finds a good source for a metal 5" o-ring or the 4" belt greebly parts, please share. I have Rob's belt, but I'd really like an all metal belt, if I can make it look accurate. I wonder if there'd be enough interest to hire a metal shop to cast us these parts.

[DarthTagion]

I don't know that metal is required to achieve the look. Perhaps, but a silver coloring might also achieve the same look. Again looking for a mock-up here and I do like what you have so far, very interesting. As it is, there's still no guarantee it'll get 501st approval, but I really do think this is a neat project worth looking at.

[Guest Kilryth]

I don't know that metal is required to achieve the look. Perhaps, but a silver coloring might also achieve the same look. Again looking for a mock-up here and I do like what you have so far, very interesting. As it is, there's still no guarantee it'll get 501st approval, but I really do think this is a neat project worth looking at.

 

Challenge accepted!!

 

Thanks for your feedback guys. This is the strange thing about 501st to me: You are mentored by a Detachment, but you are approved by a Garrison. I would have thought that the approving officer would exist within the same department as the mentor, for equality across the entire 501st. Oh well, I know better than to try to change that as a wee Padawan.

[DarthTagion]

Normally.

 

All TFE costumes are approved at the Legion level by the LMO, not by the Garrison.

[Guest Kilryth]

Normally.

 

All TFE costumes are approved at the Legion level by the LMO, not by the Garrison.

 

Ohhh that's good to know then! I was afraid it would differ from state to state. All this 501st terminology boggles my newbie mind. Thanks for clarifying.

[DarthTagion]

Yup, NP.

 

Short version of real situation: A familiar GML will review it anyway before sending it up. Then they post on the Legion thread in a private thread only view-able by GMLs, GWLs, Detachment Leads and certain other staff to include the LMOs.

 

If anyone has any comments they're made there confidentially in regards to suggestions. Sometimes things come up and myself or others will give input for consideration.

 

I make a point to keep an eye on the Revans that come through, to either make suggestion or take note of what gets noticed or suggested.

[Guest Kilryth]

Yup, NP.

 

Short version of real situation: A familiar GML will review it anyway before sending it up. Then they post on the Legion thread in a private thread only view-able by GMLs, GWLs, Detachment Leads and certain other staff to include the LMOs.

 

If anyone has any comments they're made there confidentially in regards to suggestions. Sometimes things come up and myself or others will give input for consideration.

 

I make a point to keep an eye on the Revans that come through, to either make suggestion or take note of what gets noticed or suggested.

 

It sounds like you are our GO-TO pre-approval guy then, eh? If you sign off on it, it doesn't guarantee it... but it should be safe to proceed forward. That's good to know!

 

Should I be scared to try to improve the costume's accuracy (such as this attempt with the belt)? I'm nervous of not getting approved on little things like this, since 501st is pretty big on making all the costumes look alike. I know MyWickedArmor is pretty much the de facto standard for Revan, with a couple alterations. I'm trying to take what he did best and then improve on things that could use it (using better quality materials where possible). I just hope I don't get flack, as long as it is accurate to the in-game images and matches up with the CRL's. I'll keep my WIP updated and bring up any questions that I'm uncertain of, of course.

[DarthTagion]

"Sorta mostly yeah". I'm by no means the final decision on something and I won't pretend to be the best darndest person out there. But I try to stay as involved as possible and provide sound insight into the approval process.

 

Your second part is pretty right. I'll get you in the ballpark but there's no promises made.

 

Your last paragraph is exactly why I'm trying to stay on top of this and use words of encouragement. I think your intent and desire is absolutely in the right place, and I want to encourage you to put out the best possible product you can for all to see. You submitting something a-typical is going to be a success either way, as we reaffirm what we already have, or we take a second look at what we've got and decide there's a better option.

 

My suggestion I suppose is to be creatively uncreative. We're replicating not inventing. I think that makes sense.

 

Also, it's tough, but I do my best to relay the difference between personal opinion and that as a Costume Mentor.

 

I'm in Hawaii this next week but I'll check in from time to time.

 

Also, I haven't posted it yet but I oughta have it in my sig or something:

 

http://mercs.firespray.net/forum/index. ... ic=59274.0

[Guest Kilryth]

Thanks for the support bro, enjoy Hawaii!! Your Merc plan sounds awesome. Love the stalker stuff and engineers. Looking good!!

 

If you need any help Or ideas, let me know.

[Ketchup]

Challenge accepted!!

 

Thanks for your feedback guys. This is the strange thing about 501st to me: You are mentored by a Detachment, but you are approved by a Garrison. I would have thought that the approving officer would exist within the same department as the mentor, for equality across the entire 501st. Oh well, I know better than to try to change that as a wee Padawan.

Yeah your GML is just the first link in the approval chain.

 

IDK what your Garrison is, but if they have a forum, hop on and introduce yourself. They will mentor you like crazy, even if there are no other Revans in the Garrison. I'm with Mountain Garrison right now, working on my build, and we have armor parties, talk shop at get-togethers...all sorts of stuff that helps immeasurably. I will be the only active Revan in my Garrison when I'm done, but one of the guys who lives close to me was already working on a Revan mask kit to sell when I started getting involved with them. I was going to make my own but because I like his so much I decided just to buy one from him. So even if they aren't the most knowledgeable about Revan in particular, they can still be a massive amount of help.

 

Ofc, with the nitpicky details you wanna ask DarthTagion. XD

[DarthTagion]

ill be a massive amount of help.

 

Ofc, with the nitpicky details you wanna ask DarthTagion. XD

 

I'm nitpicky because I care.

 

Most garrisons I would hope are just like the above described. Worst case, the Revan boards here are pretty dang active and Flagship is fortunate enough to have some downright amazingly talented folks.

[Ketchup]

 

I'm nitpicky because I care.

 

Most garrisons I would hope are just like the above described. Worst case, the Revan boards here are pretty dang active and Flagship is fortunate enough to have some downright amazingly talented folks.

 

We love that you care! Haha.

 

For an EU character, Revan has quite the following, so we're fortunate that there's so many people to help.