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Atris in the 501st


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

Hi there, I'm Alex, nice to meet all of you!

 

Anyway, my wife wants to do an Atris costume for 501st membership. So we were wondering if Atris would be an approvable character. Here are some visual references:

 

http://www.ultrasabers.com/images/atris/atris1.jpg

http://www.ultrasabers.com/images/atris/atris2.jpg

http://www.ultrasabers.com/images/atris/atris3.jpg

http://www.ultrasabers.com/images/atris/atris4.jpg

http://www.ultrasabers.com/images/atris/atris5.jpg

http://www.ultrasabers.com/images/atris/atris6.jpg

 

Atris has appeared in "Knights of the Old Republic II", "Chronicles of the Old Republic", Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide, and the comic book "Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 9: Flashpoint Interlude: Homecoming".

 

Atris was a former Jedi Master in the days of the old republic who, through the facilitation of Darth Traya and influence of Sith Holocrons, fell to the Dark Side.

 

Seems like a very interesting character, but before we go through the pains of creating a costume, we'd like to see if this character will be allowed into the 501st. Thanks!

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Guest Anonymous

Hey Master Ultra,thanks again for pointing me to this forum,I love this place.

 

I can`t wait to see your wifes Atris costume.

I would assume with a silver Lux V Ultrasaber:)

 

It great to see the force-fx sigs on more forums then just force-fx and fx-sabers too,I love it:).

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Guest bassclarinets

welcome! :) i'm sure someone "in the know" so to speak will pipe in with the proper knowledge -

 

where to start - collect as many references as possible from as many sources as possible (you have an AWESOME start here) -

 

try to get references of the FULL costume (that match - that's the challenge)

 

and then (the step that you have taken) post up, cross your fingers, and wait to see what the LMO or others have to say - :)

 

again! WELCOME!!!

 

jen

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Guest Anonymous

Upon further investigation, Atris is a commonly recurring character in the Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic comic book series. So I think the references are covered.

 

Luckily for us, as with most KOTOR characters, there are full rendered models available from the game to work from which show all the angles.

 

I can tell already that getting the pattern right on her tabbards is going to be tough.

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.

 

I don't know if she will be an approved 501st charater, but I've been planning to make that costume to go with my husband's Nihilus. We've developed a tradition of making his-and-hers related costume sets. (Though a marriage counselor would probably have issues with the pairings that we keep choosing... especially the Aalya and Star Corps clone!)

 

Pam :-)

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Good morning Alex,

 

As I recall, Atris genuinely believed she was serving the Light by her zealot actions. She delved into the Sith Holocrons hoping to better understand how to defeat the Dark SIde. In her fervour, she came to believe that this was her charge to complete alone.

 

If we were to call a Jedi a Sith Lord simply because they raised arms against another Jedi, than the entire Jedi Council of the Olde Republic would be suspect.

 

I'll need to get better reference to give a deffinitive answer.

Please note: Wikipedia, Wookipedia, and any other FAN-FICTION "encyclopedia" cannot be cited for reference for 501st purposes.

 

SWminiCOTF02consularls-m.jpg

 

In any case, the character was certainly not a Dark Lord of the Sith. If Atris's character was to be shoe-horned into the 501st, than approved costumes based on her character would first be displayed under SL. But only temporarily. Eventually, like Mara Jade, Night Sisters, Asajj Ventress, and Visas Mar, she would be placed into the purposed DA category for "Darkside Adept."

 

That is if evidence correlaborates her appropiateness for the Legion. Personally, I like to see Atris is a Rebel Legion character;

DragonCon18077.jpg

 

The Rebel Legion already accepts characters that I would define as villains, but Atris is different still. She is a Jedi gone over the top to meet her goal. A momentary lack of judgement does not necessarily place a person beyound redemption, e.g. Luke Skywalker and Quilan Vos.

 

Clearly this will require a bit more thought and LFL commisioned reference.

 

Be well,

Thomas

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Guest Anonymous

It's great seeing all these new people coming in with passion for the EU! It's making me all excited with each new character (darkside or otherwise).

 

I have been considering a "Handmaiden" costume for a while and need to do much research on her. The problem I am seeing with EU characters is that there are many influences on them from all different areas and it's tough to decide who's side everyone is one.

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Guest Sakara

We have a great Atris in our the Rebel Command club affiliated with the UKg..at the moment she does the 'light' version sans black eyes.

atris.jpg

1001895r.jpg

 

http://images3.fotopic.net/?iid=yngpk1&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

 

a Stunning custom made saber with aqua blade...its so tiny its stunning.

I know she did her tabbards by taking the image of Atris with good tabbard designs and enlarging on the photocopier till they were to scale then using transfer paper to map the design out so the design on her tabards matches the drawings perfectly.

 

and on a seperate subject and something close to my heart.......

 

.the latest 'special edition' (updated to include Legacy and KOTOR) of Star Wars the ultimate visual guide, its states that Visas Marr is Darth Nihilus's apprentice. Thus...im arguing she isnt a darkside acolyte but a true sith lord., like Anakin,Maul Malak etc etc..even if its for a short while.

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Guest Anonymous

It is made clear by the end of KOTOR II that Atris has, indeed, gone Dark. That is not, however, to say she is a Sith nor that she SEES herself as a Sith. But her resentment toward the Exile and fear begin to control all of her actions and dictate her behavior.

 

Darth Traya names her effectively as a soul sister toward the end of the game, as a fellow betrayer. I can find the quotes if you like.

 

Of course, in initial development of the game, Atris was supposed to become or be revealed as Darth Traya. This development was cut and the role was given (more effectively I think) to Kreia.

 

Anyway, not sure if Atris should be 501st material or not, but think it's only fair to point out that, in game terms, she is certainly defined as a Jedi who has fallen to the Dark by the end of the game and she shows clear warning signs throughout the story. So, I'd say it's an open issue and worthy of discussion.

 

It'd be rather funny to have a Jedi dressed all in white as one of our Dark Jedi, but hey, irony can be a good thing.

 

- Carolyn

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Guest Sakara

Its interesting about how we associate colour with good and bad. In western society its black bad, white good. In oriental culture white is the symbol of death and a totally white character is often evil. With alot of world culture in the SW universe it wouldnt be to much of a stray to suggest that is what Atris is.

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Guest Anonymous

A good point. :) Of course, when it comes to the SW universe, while white is associated with stormtroopers, black is associated with Sith and the very term "Dark Side."

 

But, absolutely correct. And even in SW, things aren't so simplistic that Atris should be called good merely because she wears pretty white robes. LOL!

 

- Carolyn

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Good afternoon,

 

Kristen,

 

Thank you for the excellent costume example. I think such images are very inspiring.

 

About the Darkside Adept category mention early this yeat.

Part of the introduction of Visas Mar to the Legion Council was the caveat that the character would eventualyy be placed in the new 501st category of DA.

 

While there was never any doubt that Visas Mar was learning from Darth Nihilus, she never reached the title of Darth. Darth Maul was an apprentice, but also a full fledged Sith Lord. Visas was only beginning her descent, and not a fully trained Sith Lord.

 

Asajj Ventress would be considered more studied in the ways of the Sith, but her ablities were innate, and not trained in the SIth tradition.

 

?Is there some stigma attached to becoming a Darkside Adept that has not been discussed? The whole purpose of the category is branch out and more properly define different force users types in the 501st.

 

Thank you Carolyn for the confirmation.

I am not sure what to do with it just yet myself. Luke Skywalker and Quilan Vos both technically fell to the Dark Side, but all the while they remained heros. Their actions perserved the greater good and they were redeemed.

 

Perhaps more of Atris's KOTOR comic series actions would help.

 

Or maybe just some tyme to think. An all white obscure EU Jedi with a blue blade might prove a hard sell in the Legion Council.

 

Be well,

Thomas

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Guest Sakara

no idont see a stigma..its purely a personal feeling that Visas is sith..cut short in her training whereas i totally agree that Asajj is a dark side adept who is never given sith training.

 

(plus of course itl be nice to have a character from each catagory :lol::wink::lol: )

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Guest Anonymous
A good point. :) Of course, when it comes to the SW universe, while white is associated with stormtroopers, black is associated with Sith and the very term "Dark Side."

 

But, absolutely correct. And even in SW, things aren't so simplistic that Atris should be called good merely because she wears pretty white robes. LOL!

 

- Carolyn

 

Thats true also Marka Ragnos wore white robes as well though Ragnos only appeared in spirit so I don't know if he ever wore white robes when he was alive.

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Guest Anonymous

Atris isn't any more obscure than any other KOTOR character. Regardless of how she may consider herself, she still fell. The path to the Dark Side is paved with good intentions.

 

She kept her Jedi clothing because she didn't consider herself "fallen". That's just more of her delusion. However, as we all learned from Batman, it's our actions that define us. Atris may have meant well, but her actions were clearly malevolent.

 

What makes Atris such an interesting character is that she's a villian who thinks she's a hero.

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Guest Anonymous

 

It'd be rather funny to have a Jedi dressed all in white as one of our Dark Jedi, but hey, irony can be a good thing.

 

That is what I like most about it. Why do all Dark Jedi need to dress in black?

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Guest braea_kast

In the KOTORII video game when Kreia walks up behind Atris in her meditation chamber, here is the exact dialogue that takes place between these two characters...

 

(Please bear with me, you know RPG dialogue is long)

 

Atris: "Who is there?"

 

Kreia: "Who is not the question."

 

Atris: "I am Atris, Jedi Master... the last historian of the Jedi, the last of the Jedi."

 

Kreia: "Those are titles, words you cling to as the darkness falls around you."

 

Atris: "You are that which has attacked the Jedi... you are Sith."

 

Kreia: "Sith is a title yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe. For you... It is different. Know that there once was a Darth Traya. And she cast aside that role, was exiled, and found a new purpose. But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal. You have been betrayed in your heart, and will betray in turn. You have bathed in the knowledge of the Sith. But there is not enough truth in such teachings... but it will be a step for you."

 

Atris: "How did it happen?"

 

Kreia: "Search your heart. It was never battle that called to you. Never battle that caused you to fall. Malachor V has touched many things, and it casts its echoes still."

 

Atris: "Why did she/he betray me?"

 

Kreia: "You betrayed yourself. Do not blame the exile. And unlike you and I, there is still a chance that one may be saved. The one that you cast out."

 

Atris: "Where is the exile? I had thought..."

 

Kreia: "Oh, she/he will come. But it will be too late to save either of us. It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it."

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW NOTE:

This takes places at about 95% thru the video game and in the year 3,951.

The comic in which Atris first appears takes place in the year 3,963. That's 12 years difference. She was the historian at that time, and just like the historian in Episodes I-III, they only served on the council and were in charge of the library of the Jedi and did not carry any Sith holocrons during those times, otherwise, they would fall into padawan, jedi knight and youngling's hands. And you can tell by her demeanor, she was a very strict and loyal member of the council...

 

There's also a holocron of the Exile's trial that shows exactly her feelings of defiance against the Jedi council...

 

Like Thomas said... We'll have to wait and see what they play out in the comics, Kreia was the historian before Atris, so... you never know....

 

braea_kast

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Guest Anonymous

You're a little mistaken on your timeline, Braea.

 

Atris is in the Dark Horse comic series Knights of the Old Republic written by John Jackson Miller.

 

In Chronicles: Part XIII: Ascension of the Sith, Atris began to delve into Sith holocrons to attempt to determine the nature of the threat facing the Jedi. Atris sets up a secret Jedi Conclave on the home planet of Visas Marr, Katarr. Atris, hoping to draw out the enemy, secretly leaked the location of the assembly. Her plan fails, and in turn, Nihilus destroys the planet.

 

In "Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic --9: Flashpoint Interlude: Homecoming", Atris is seen at the Exile's trial.

 

All of that takes place well before the context of the video game and before her fall to the dark side.

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Guest Anonymous
Atris isn't any more obscure than any other KOTOR character. Regardless of how she may consider herself, she still fell. The path to the Dark Side is paved with good intentions.

 

She kept her Jedi clothing because she didn't consider herself "fallen". That's just more of her delusion. However, as we all learned from Batman, it's our actions that define us. Atris may have meant well, but her actions were clearly malevolent.

 

What makes Atris such an interesting character is that she's a villian who thinks she's a hero.

 

True!

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Guest braea_kast

Kotor comic --9 is not the trial of the exile, because Revan and Malak have not gone to war against the Mandalorians yet...

 

Sorry, I know my KOTOR timeline very well... She was speaking to a "hooded figure" to whom no one at Dark Horse has revealed the identity of yet... That hooded figure was standing before the Jedi council trying to explain (his/her) situation. And that the Jedi needed to lend their help. When he/she leaves Lucien talks to him/her. And then the hooded figure exits.

 

You only see the hooded figure 2 other times in the comics:

--6- Sitting in a chair, watching the telecommunications relay of the Mandalorian crisis on Taris.

--15 - When Serroco gets nuked, there is a panel with Alek and the hooded figure on a forest planet feel the attack on Serroco.

 

This is a quote from the Dark Horse web site in reference to the KOTOR comics: "? Continuing the ongoing monthly series set four thousand years before the rise of the Empire and the fall of Anakin Skywalker (and eight years prior to the events in the Knights of the Old Republic video game)."

 

Timeline again:

Kotor comic --9 - 3,963 BBY

Knights of the Old Republic Video Game (after the Mandalorian War, in the heat of the Jedi Civil War -

 

Per Wookiepedia timeline resources:

* 3,965 BBY

o The Mandalorian Wars begin with the First Battle of Onderon.[source?]

o The Galactic Republic enters the war, but the Jedi Council forbids involvement by the Jedi until the problem has been assessed.[4]

 

* 3,964 BBY

o Battle of Flashpoint Station.[5]

o First Battle of Suurja.[5]

o Second Battle of Suurja.[5]

o Third Battle of Suurja.[5]

o Fourth Battle of Suurja.[5]

o Padawan Massacre of Taris.[6]

o Battle of Vanquo.[7]

 

* 3,963 BBY

o Battle of Cathar.[2]

o In response, the Jedi Revan and Malak defy the Jedi Council and lead a large faction of the Jedi[2], including the Jedi Exile[4], to war.

 

* 3,962 BBY

o Eres III is nearly destroyed by Mandalorian hands, while at the same time the Xoxin plains are intentionally set on fire and continue to burn, even twelve years later.[source?]

o The Mandalorians nearly devastate planet Duro, forcing the Duros to evacuate and relocate.[source?]

 

* 3,961 BBY

o The Exchange is driven off Taris for a time, thanks to Revan's intervention.[2]

o Juhani is freed from slavery.[2]

o Revan and Malak discover Star Maps on Kashyyyk and Korriban.[2]

o Brejik takes command of the Black Vulkar gang on Taris.[2]

o Cassus Fett becomes the most wanted man in the Galaxy.[source?]

 

* 3,960 BBY

o Mandalore the Ultimate is killed by Revan at the Battle of Malachor V.[2]

o The Mandalorian Wars end.[2]

o The Jedi Exile, who was serving as a general, loses all connection to the Force, returns to the Jedi Council, and is exiled from the Order for her crimes.[4]

o Revan and Malak disappear into unknown space with a third of the Republic fleet.[2]

 

* 3,959 BBY

o The Jedi Civil War begins.[2]

o Revan and Malak declare themselves Sith and invade the Republic. Only the Battle Meditation of Bastila Shan staves off certain defeat.[source?]

o Battle of Foerost.

o Bombing of Telos IV.[2]

 

* 3,958 BBY

o Griff Vao leaves Taris with Lena, abandoning his young sister, Mission.[2]

 

* 3,957 BBY

o Revan is defeated onboard his flagship, after Malak turns against him. Bastila Shan brings Revan back to the Jedi, who use the Force to strip his memories and create a new identity for him.[2]

 

* 3,956 BBY

o Battle of Taris.[2]

o Attack on Dantooine.[2]

o At the Battle of Rakata Prime, Revan kills Malak in a lightsaber duel, and the Republic Fleet destroys the Star Forge.[2]

o End of the Jedi Civil War.[2]

o The First Sith Civil War begins.[1]

 

* 3,955 BBY

o Revan disappears into the Unknown Regions.[4]

o The First Sith Civil War ends.[4]

o First Jedi Purge begins.[4]

o Supreme Chancellor Cressa starts the Telosian Restoration Project, for which Aratech launches the G0-T0 droid series.[8]

 

* 3,952 BBY

o The Conclave on Katarr is called to discuss the future of the Jedi Order.[4]

o The Sith Lord Darth Nihilus uses his massive Force powers to feed off of the life on Katarr, destroying all life on the planet, (except for the Miraluka Visas Marr), and virtually wipes out the Jedi Order.[4]

 

* 3,951 BBY

o The Czerka Corporation, through not entirely legal means, attempts to take control over the Telosian Restoration Project.[4]

o The Exile is discovered aboard the Ebon Hawk by Kreia.[4]

o First Battle of Dantooine.[4]

o First Battle of Onderon.[4]

o Second Battle of Onderon.[4]

o Battle of Telos IV.[4]

o The Exile reestablishes connection to the Force, then kills Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion and [[|Kreia|Darth Traya]], who have spent the last five years assassinating Jedi.[4]

o Destruction of Malachor V.[4]

o First Jedi Purge ends.

o The Second Sith Civil War begins.[1]

o End of the Old Sith Wars.

o The Exile departs to the Unknown Regions to find Revan

 

Plus, the information you are quoting about Atris and the Sith holocrons, going to a "mid-rim" world, and that she led the Jedi Council and the Miraluka to their destruction, all came from a unofficial video game site. gamebanshee.com

None of it can be linked to LucasArts as far as I know or can find...

 

I apologize for sounding very winded, but I like to be very through in my research...

 

Again.... apologies...Didn't mean to write a dog-gone book here...

braea_kast

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Guest Anonymous

If I may weigh in here, in the dialogue quoted earlier by Braea, it was my understanding, (both reading it now, and when I played the game,) that Kreia basically tella Atris flat out that she has now become Darth Traya. With all the sith knowledge that Atris has and the newly appointed darth title, doesnt that make her a sith? (or at least evil enough to be in the 501st?) Cuz if not, then the question becomes, who is Darth Traya? Due to the nature of KOTOR 2, and being able to choose your side, this question is up in the air. It all depends on how you play the game.

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Guest Anonymous

Good questions, all. Yes, it does seem as if Kreia/Traya is telling Atris that, even though Atris was unaware of it and didn't, in fact, WANT it...her actions and attitude, not to mention her studies in Sith lore, have made her the next Darth Traya.

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If I may weigh in here, in the dialogue quoted earlier by Braea, it was my understanding, (both reading it now, and when I played the game,) that Kreia basically tella Atris flat out that she has now become Darth Traya. With all the sith knowledge that Atris has and the newly appointed darth title, doesnt that make her a sith? (or at least evil enough to be in the 501st?) Cuz if not, then the question becomes, who is Darth Traya? Due to the nature of KOTOR 2, and being able to choose your side, this question is up in the air. It all depends on how you play the game.

 

Evil? I'm in the process of finishing another run through KOTOR2 and I have yet to actually find anything that Atris does that really would make her evil in any way. Closest thing I've found so far would be when she attacks the Handmaiden on the return to Telos. (which is actually where I'm at in teh game right now.)

 

Just because Atris studied the sith holocrons doesn't make her sith. (You can study physics, but it doesn't make you a physicist, same thing.)

 

Whether or not Kreia is insinuating that Atris is supposed to be the "new" Darth Traya, doesn't make her a sith either. Atris' actions, while definately somewhat misguided, are for the largest part beneficial instead of harmful.

During a point when Jedi are being hunted down and slaughtered, she gathers and protects Jedi artifacts and founds a new training academy on Telos.

 

So, basically, as interesting as I find the character to be, I don't think Atris belongs in the 501st.

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Guest Anonymous
Good questions, all. Yes, it does seem as if Kreia/Traya is telling Atris that, even though Atris was unaware of it and didn't, in fact, WANT it...her actions and attitude, not to mention her studies in Sith lore, have made her the next Darth Traya.

 

Note that I didn't say that Atris went on to become the next Darth Traya, just that Kreia named her as such. Kreia's own motives, though, are notoriously murky...and so are her means. I'd say, though, that Atris has fallen a long way...perhaps not all the way to Sith status, but she's let her jealousy and her anger get the better of her.

 

Anyway, this is more, for me, just debating about the character rather than making an argument for or against her being in the 501st. I'd need to think on that more. I'd say the case is shaky. She's not a virtuous Jedi, at this point...but is she bad enough for villain status? *makes a so-so gesture with hand.*

 

- Carolyn

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