Imperial Knight Standards Discussion

[Guest Anonymous]

So let's discuss...

 

Draft Costume Standards for The Imperial Knights

 

An Imperial Knight Costume Must Have:

(These costume elements are required for acceptance into the 501st Legion. If a costumer chooses to portray The Emperor there are certain differences in some of the armor pieces. These differences are noted in the descriptions of the pieces affected.)

 

Cuirass (Breastplate/Back Armor):

* The armor should have a glossy sheen and must be red in color to match the artist color palette reference material.

* The armor must be made of a rigid material.

* The armor must include a pattern of scallops, ridges and ergonomic designs that replicate the design seen in the reference images.

* The cuirass (breastplate and back armor) has individual sections or panels that make up the entirety of the Imperial Knight upper body armor. The chest and torso are comprised of several distinct geometric shapes and sections that make up the whole. The back is also comprised of several distinct geometric shapes and sections that make up the whole. These shapes although described as separate armor sections are joined to create unending coverage of the costumer's chest, torso and back. The cuirass armor must replicate the design seen in the reference images. The cloak/cape is attached through the upper portion of the back armor and kept in place by the addition of a scapula plate which also has several geometric sections, and must be replicated in this manner to match the design of the reference material. There is a slight difference in the male and female breastplates, as the breastplate must be formed to incorporate the gender of the costumer.

 

***NOTE: Due to the inherent nature of the Galactic Emperors’ position his armor incorporates subtle differences from the standard Imperial Knight. The Emperor's cuirass must be two-tone; a glossy metallic sheen and be gold in color around the neckline to include the scapula plate, with the remainder of the breastplate and back armor in glossy red to match the artist color palette reference material.

 

 

IMPERIAL KNIGHT MALE

IMPERIAL KNIGHT FEMALE

scan0002bEMPEROR FEL

TORSO

SCAPULA PLATE

 

 

Abdominal Armor (Mid-section):

* The armor should have a glossy sheen and must be red in color to match the artist color palette reference material.

* The armor must be made of a rigid material.

* The armor must include a pattern of scallops, ridges and ergonomic designs that replicate the design seen in the reference images.

*The armor should consist of 3 vertical plates with a rectangular tab on the bottom of the centre plate. These plates come together in the shape of a top heavy trapezoid/hexagon.

 

ABDOMINAL PLATE

 

 

Pauldrons (Shoulder Armor):

* The armor should have a glossy sheen and must be red in color to match the artist color palette reference material. ***NOTE: The Emperor's pauldrons should have a glossy metallic sheen and be gold in color.

* The armor must be made of a rigid material.

* The armor must include a pattern of scallops, ridges and ergonomic designs that replicate the design seen in the reference images.

* The armor must be two (2) individual pieces per shoulder; one bottom piece that is bowl shaped to match the reference material and one top piece that serves as a cover to the lower that matches the reference material.

 

***NOTE: The Left side upper piece must contain the Galactic Imperial Seal in relief to match the reference material.

 

 

Vambraces:

* The armor should have a glossy sheen and must be red in color to match the artist color palette reference material.

* The armor must be made of a rigid material.

* The armor must include a pattern of scallops, ridges and ergonomic designs that replicate the design seen in the reference images.

* They should enclose the upper half of the forearm, and should extend from the wrist to just below or at the elbow.

* The vambraces have two (2) loops that connect the left and right sides of the vambraces, under the forearm.

 

*** NOTE: The Right side vambrace must contain the Galactic Imperial Seal in relief to match the reference material.

 

 

Hand Armor:

* The armor should have a glossy sheen and must be red in color to match the artist color palette reference material.

* The armor must be made of a rigid material.

* The armor must include a pattern of scallops, ridges and ergonomic designs that replicate the design seen in the reference images.

 

***NOTE: the hand armor is symmetrically opposite for each hand.

 

 

Loin Plate:

* The armor should have a glossy sheen and must be red in color to match the artist color palette reference material.

* The armor must be made of a rigid material.

* The armor must include a pattern of scallops, ridges and ergonomic designs that replicate the design seen in the reference images.

* The armor must attach to the rear of the costumer’s large waist belt and visually match the reference material.

 

 

Cape / Hood / Cloak:

* A suitable rich brown heavy fabric must be used to simulate wool and match the color palette reference material.

* The cape fabric should hang straight down the back.

* The cloak/cape is attached through the upper portion of the back armor and kept in place by the scapula plate and must be replicated in this manner to match the design of the reference material.

 

***NOTE: Due to the versatile nature of the Imperial Knights position they are called upon to utilize mission specific equipment. In certain cases they have used cloaks with a hood/cowl attachment. This is not to be included as a requirement for acceptance, but may be utilized by the costumer if they choose to do so.

 

 

Tunic:

* The tunic and tabbards must be made of black leather or leather-like fabric, with long sleeves and must include vertical quilting similar to the undersuit worn by Darth Vader (EP3-6) on each sleeve and must match the reference material.

* The collar should be made in a high, form-fitting style with vertical seams to match the reference material.

* The tunic torso should be made of eight ( panels that make up the body with vertical seams and must match the reference material.

* The tunic must include eight ( tabbards that hang freely from the waist. The two (2) tabards located in the front and the back must be slightly longer than the other six (6), all tabbards must match the reference material.

 

Pants:

* The pants must be made of black leather or leather like fabric and must match the reference material.

 

***NOTE: Due to the versatile nature of the Imperial Knights position they are called upon to utilize mission specific equipment. In certain cases they have used pants that have vertical quilting similar to that used by Darth Vader (EP3-6). This is not to be included as a requirement for acceptance, but may be utilized by the costumer if they choose to do so.

 

Inner Body Belt and Lightsaber Belts:

* The belts must be made of leather or similar material to simulate leather and match the color palette reference material.

* The inner body belt must encircle the costumer’s waist without a break in material and should be secured at the costumer’s back with a belt keeper that hides the closure device/method. The inner body belt dimension should not be more than five (5) inches wide and no less than four (4) inches and should match the reference material.

* The lightsaber belts must encircle both sides of the costumer’s waist without a break in material on either side and should be secured at the costumer’s front with a rectangle buckle containing an Imperial disk and should be centered on the inner body belt. The lightsaber belt must contain two (2) separate belt pieces for each side that matches the reference material.

* The inner lightsaber belt should have two (2) pieces, one on each side of the costumer’s waist. Each piece should extend from just off center of the costumer’s back to within approximately six (6) to eight ( inches of each other at the costumer’s front. The inner lightsaber belt should be no more than three (3) inches and no less than two (2) inches in width and must have no less than four (4) vertical slots for use of an outer lightsaber belt approximately two (2) inches from the front ends of the belt and approximately two (2) inches from each other that match the reference material.

* The outer lightsaber belt should have two (2) pieces, one on each side of the costumer’s waist. Each piece should extend from the end of the inner lightsaber belt to the fastening devices of the buckle, located at the center front of the costumer’s waist to match the reference material. The outer lightsaber belt must pass through the four (4) vertical slots located near the front of the inner lightsaber belt to match the reference material. A lightsaber hook should be located on the costumer’s left front hip to match the reference material.

 

***NOTE: The female version of the Imperial Knight belt must include the slight point located directly in the front center of the inner body belt of the costumer’s waist to match the reference material.

 

 

Gloves:

* The gloves should be made of undecorated black leather or fabric.

* The gloves must be long enough to conceal any skin that might show on the wrists. They should be tucked under the vambraces.

 

Boots:

* The boots must be chocolate brown or black in color and approximately knee high.

* The toes must be rounded.

* The heels should be low, and there should be no visible laces.

* There must be strapping near the top of the boots to match the reference material.

 

An Imperial Knight Costume Should Have:

(These costume elements are highly recommended, but are not required.)

 

Lightsaber:

* The lightsaber(s) should resemble the sabers used by the Imperial Knights as much as possible.

* Unmodified FX sabers or sabers that are recognizable as belonging to another known character are not accepted.

* An Imperial Knight Lightsaber is silver in color, with the center section removed that shows black ribbing, a thin black band near the pommel and has a slanted emitter end.

 

[Twi'lek Pam]

Nicely done! I guess this means I need to start looking at the references and bug our resident IK experts for some input!

 

Thank you for getting that set of standards started. I know that it's a really big job, and I deeply appreciate the help.

 

Pam

[Guest Anonymous]

Sure thing, I had several image panels embedded within the draft but couldn't transfer them all at once, I'll include tham ASAP.

[The Clone Emperor]

Good morning,

 

The following is a basic list of Imperial Knight costume components from last year;

 

1. Full body suit

A. Black Quilted leather/leather-like top with eight panel torso and high neck

B. Black Quilted or Plain leather/leather-like trousers

2. Black eight panel leather/leather-like skirt

3 . Gloves

4. Three layer leather/leather-like brown belt and Imperial issue buckle,

5. Proper boots--A chocolate brown version of Obi Wan's Episode II boots

6. Rich Brown cape

Armour;

7. Unique L/R Red hand plates

8. Unique L/R Red Bracers and molded red straps

9. Unique Red Loin plate

10. Unique Red Abdomen plate

11. Unique Red Chest plate

12. Unique Red Back plate

13. Unique Red cape cap plate

14. Unique Red L/R under bells

15. Unique Red L/R over bells

Accessories

16. Unique hilt lightsabre and white blade

17. Brown leather/leather-like belt pouches

 

Besides matching the references created by Jan Duurseama, I'd also look for the armour to fit the wearer. The abdomen plate should cover the abodomen, not sit on top of the belly button. The breast plate should not rest above the wearer's chest, but rather be aligned with it.

 

I have a file of all the Imperial Knight costumers that I have found in the past 2 years. Some are close, but most try to hide missing parts with a cape or hood. Or they are flat and do not follow the sculpted form of the armour referenced. Or the fit is fairly off. I am for requiring a completed, accurate suit for membership.

 

Be well,

Thomas

 

Please note armour point 13, the shoulder armour across the back, illustrated below in the first set of panels;

This is separate from the back armour underneath the cape. As The Flagship Eclipse gallery is down, I think it may help to repost these 2007 assets that Jan Duursema, designer of the Imperial Knight created for our use;

 

I am in favour of less wordy, but more illustrated standards work best. If striving for a purely textual guide, I suggest greater detail. For instance, the abdomen plate could additionally be described as consisting of 3 vertical plates with a rectangular tab on the bottom of the centre plate. These plates come together in the shape of a top heavy trapezoid/hexagon.

 

Restoring The Flagship Eclipse Library and populating the Imperial Knight entry with scans of all available reference will further promote this project.

 

Be well,

Thomas

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a question about the breastplate. Would there have to be two diffenert breastplates, male and female or just one for everybody. I'm wondering because of this pics in the comics where the females have breastplates that you can tell they are female. I know why that might be done in the comics.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am in favour of less wordy, but more illustrated standards work best...

 

I agree, the CRL should assist the costumer in producing the piece not hinder by a volume of verbiage to adhere to. In this case I believe there should be a good representation of images as well description though. This costume holds a special place for me as I know it does for you as well Thomas, and I would like to ensure that when folks start the endeavor they are armed with as much info as possible and there is a little “wiggle room” as possible.

As a side note, any issues with using your images to assist in the endeavor? 2D comic panels are good but 3D photos are great.

 

...Would there have to be two diffenert breastplates, male and female or just one for everybody...

 

I would assume that folks would do the right thing, but...to keep from being a hypocrite along the lines of my previous statement. I'll add a note to the cuirass portion to clarify.

[The Clone Emperor]

It is a good point to consider the female and male versions of this costume.

 

While the armour bears the same construction, the entire suit is fitted to match the form of each gender.

 

Belts are also different between female and male knights.

 

I will need to confer with Jan about her intention for the treatment of the skirt equivalent on the female uniform. It was the same between the genders in the Zero Issue, but recent renders have only the male knights with the eight paneled skirt. (I'll give her a call this week.)

 

Be well,

Thomas

[Guest A'Sharad Hett]

As to male/female diferrences pauldrons are much smaller than their male counterparts:

 

[Guest Anonymous]

As to male/female diferrences pauldrons are much smaller than their male counterparts

 

I would be more inclined to believe that's based on the individuals proportions not gender. Comparative to the amount of armor trim required for a female (or smaller male) to have the proper fit for a TK shoulders/thighs/shins etc.

I'll hold of any other small changes until Thomas has a chance to speak with Jan, unless I've completely missed something obvious.

[The Clone Emperor]

Good morning,

 

I just got off the phone with Jan (Duursema, SW Legacy character designer/artist/author). She had to use a head set as she is feverishly working to meet Legacy deadlines. Fortunately, her pace was such that we could chat for a moment.

 

On the topic of differences in Imperial Knight armour between genders, there is a slight accommodation for the female breast. Otherwise the armour components are identical, merely scaled to the body of the wearer--as previously suggested.

 

The only difference in the Imperial Knight uniform between the genders is in the belt. While the male belt is a straight band, the female belt tapers to a downward facing point along the front bottom edge.

 

The female Imperial Knight uniform is meant to wear the same eight tabards around the waist. These may be thought of as an extension of the panels in the shirt. (The recent images and action figure of Imperial Knight Sigil Dare without the tabbards are considered incomplete.*)

 

I want to a take a moment to address Race as applied to Imperial Knights. Here to far Imperial Knights have all been depicted as human, with hair of natural colour, kept in a neat fashion. Until reference supply otherwise, the costume standard for this unit will suppose the same.

 

Be well,

Thomas

 

*Jan admits that sometymes in the heat of meeting deadlines costume details can be reversed or left out entirely. On the topic of the Imperial Knights, the details list here--as extrapolated from the Legacy 0 issue--shall be considered canon for 501st definition.

 

The Legion's Visual CRL has posted its first entries. These concern Darth Tyranus;

Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku: AOTC

and

Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku: ROTS

 

These entries represent the final treatment intended for all Legion CRL entries.

[Guest Anonymous]

Excellent information Thomas, thank you for taking the time to follow up. Please also thank Jan as well for her time, when next you chat.

[The Clone Emperor]

Good evening,

 

Please note the hoods and forward covering extensions of the cape worn on the rescue mission to Vendaxa--and subsequently not seen again--are considered mission specific accessories. (Possibly an away mission configuration of the standard wear.)

 

The same logic would apply for other disguises worn by Imperial Knights over their standard armour. (In issue 46 for instance, the Imperial Knights are disguised as farmers.)

 

I believe when this entry is finally completed for use in the 501st visual CRL, Jan herself may make use of it for reference.

 

Be well,

Thomas

[Guest Anonymous]

Excellent, glad to hear the standards are coming along well. Now I know what to do specifically regarding my own IK armor. Thank you everyone!

[Guest Daritha]

Are you going for Azlyn Rae in IK armor or just a "random" Knight? Azlyn would be cool, though we never seen her in armor before the events on Had Abbadon. Sadly.

 

Thomas, I hope to see your IK during Jedi-Con next week. Not that Darth Bane isn't awesome too but Legacy costumes give me the thrill. *gg*

[Guest Anonymous]

Are you going for Azlyn Rae in IK armor or just a "random" Knight? Azlyn would be cool, though we never seen her in armor before the events on Had Abbadon. Sadly.

Marasiah Fel to be specific. I naturally have the "skunk streak" in my own brown hair so she's a logical choice. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked to one day down the road throw the Azlyn wig on with IK armor just for fun.

[Guest Anonymous]

Any other suggestions/comments?

[Guest Anonymous]

Are the boots chocolate brown or black? And how shiny/matte should the leather on the bodysuit/pants/tabbards be?

[Guest Daritha]

Aaand I'm sucked into a new project. ... You can guess which one. Or better: I WAS sucked. When girls ask you if you want to do a Legacy group with some Darths for FedCon's costume contest in 2011 and you always said that you, one day, want to make an IK ... *sigh*

Well, let's see. I hope I can make this one real.

 

However, to the questions: It's hard to say. The colors are changing. On most of the covers, the boots are black. But all these covers where from early issues where the appearance of the armor and the boots were often slightly changing, like here:

 

 

You can clearly see how the boots are different in style. In the first picture, they appear either black (with brown reflections from the capes) or in a very dark chocolate brown. On the second picture, however, they're clearly black.

However, in issues 43, when Azlyn Rae duels Master Krieg to test her new life-supporting IK armor, we clearly see that her boots are brown - and slightly looking like the ones Obi-Wan wears in the Prequels. However, there is a coloring mistake in this panel (it was admitted by the staff) since the elderly brown-haired Knight is supposed to be Treis Sinde who has clearly white hair.

Also, in issue 8 "Allies", the Knights're wearing brown boots; although this issue takes place in 130 ABY and it seems that the Knights even wear a kind of kama or skirt and not the known tabards:

 

 

 

I also refer to Thomas's statement some posts ahead where he mentioned a chat with Legacy creator and designer Jan Duursema which could be of help in defining the boots and other details of the IK uniform:

 

The only difference in the Imperial Knight uniform between the genders is in the belt.

 

[...]

 

*Jan admits that sometymes in the heat of meeting deadlines costume details can be reversed or left out entirely. On the topic of the Imperial Knights, the details list here--as extrapolated from the Legacy 0 issue--shall be considered canon for 501st definition.

[Guest Anonymous]

Are the boots chocolate brown or black? And how shiny/matte should the leather on the bodysuit/pants/tabbards be?

 

As opinion goes, I would say the boots were black. But as Daritha pointed out, there's a bit of inconsistencythroughout the comic. On the leather I would say anything that was not "glossy" or "patened" leather would be the right choice.

 

With the end drawing near for the Legacy comic with issue #50 I would really like to get a good foundation established soon, so any comment/thoughts on the standards discussion would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest Daritha]

I would stick to the (dark chocolate) brown. In general, I would refer to the new comics more than the old ones. With Legacy, the designers had to think on wholy new levels. With Empire or Rebellion and even Dark Times, they got some molds to form. Darth Vader for instance or Stormtroopers. They had to think of somethin completely new for the Legacy comics and had to form costumes that would work for the characters. And as always, the designs were adapted and changed a bit over time. But with "Loyalties" (issues 22/23), I think the armors were finished in design and we should take the newer images as more reliable. But that're just my thoughts!

 

For the tabards: A more matte leather would be good. Nothing too shiny or sparkling (esp. not Twilight-sparkling! ). But of course, since it's leather, it should shine a bit when flashed (I have something in mind that would look like the belts here).

However, for such details, the best way to go is contact Thomas. He IS the Imperial Knight. He modeled for Jan Duursema's Knights and Jan modeled the later knights to his costume. I think we should use the fact that we have (kind of) access to the inner designer circle.

[Guest Anonymous]

In regards to the discussion on Boots, I would like to add.

While Imperial Knights are suppose to be uniform in appearance, the picture plates in the comics show some allowance in differences in the uniform, this could be due to mission requirments and a lack of universally available softparts or boots.

Jedi's wear different Boot styles, perhaps this would be one exclusion to the uniformity code, after all one should be compfortable in ones footwear when dispatching sith, and policing the policies of the Empire!

As long as the Boots are Balck or Dark Brown, no exterior zippers or buttons, calf to knee high, and Jedi'ish looking in appearance.

It would also allow future International IK's an easier ability to access local foot wear that meets the requirments. Does that make sense?

 

I would also like to address the issue of the pants. While occasionally seen wearing quilted pants, this is not always the case. I would like to submit an option to allow Black Pants nontextured, no pockets, zippers or buttons, in essence Martial Arts pants, or perhaps Black Hospital scrubs. Again comfort while dispatching sith, and policing the policies of the Empire!

 

Those are my opinions, now if I only had the time to finish my Back plate I could submit my SP armor for submission.

 

Randy TR-0773