KOTOR II - Nihilus Build and Game vs Current (09/2019) CRL Comparison

[DarthValkyria]

3 hours ago, Gomcse said:

This is an interesting costume to me because there aren't really perfect screen caps available and I think you have put together the best sources in this thread. The screen caps that exist show the low res that we have to work with, and reveal the inconsistencies the game designers programmed into the game. 

 

The Wicked Armor outfit is the best commercially available -- on ebay there are copycats who use the WA photos illegally -- and I believe the WA can and should be approved right out of the box if you have the proper gloves and boots. As an approved Vader, the thought of an approvable costume out of the box for under $500 is astounding. 

 

What you have created here, in my opinion, is what it will take to get to Level III approval.  You will have the most accurate interpretation of the KOTOR II in existence.

 

Local GML's can't approve the KOTOR II, and the CRL is still incomplete.  While I see where you are going with this, I hope the CRL doesn't force mods to the mask and pleats for basic approval.  Your mods and work on this is AMAZING, but doesn't it really create the standard for Level II and Level III? 

 

I've spoken to Rob and Melanie at WA and finally decided on COTF Darth Nihilus after they offered to make one (the web site shows them as sold out).  There are more approved COTF DN's out there, and they only require local GML approval because the CRL is defined. 

 

You are doing groundbreaking work with KOTOR II.  Keep it up! I'm following with extreme interest because my wife may end up with a KOTOR II from WA.

 

Thanks for doing the deep dive on this. Everyone is better off because of your efforts.

 

Dave

The COTF MWA isn't approvable out of the box (unless they've updated recently) just an fyi! Their top tunic part only has one layer when it calls for two (even if a superficial and a false layer just at the crossover).

[Gomcse]

The COTF MWA isn't approvable out of the box (unless they've updated recently) just an fyi! Their top tunic part only has one layer when it calls for two (even if a superficial and a false layer just at the crossover).

Thank you..I have asked for the second layer after your comment. I appreciate the correction and the help!

Dave

[DarthValkyria]

Sure thing!

[TeaJay]

On 2/27/2020 at 8:05 PM, DarthValkyria said:

Almost ready to post updates!

 

Exciting! I can't wait!

 

16 hours ago, Gomcse said:

This is an interesting costume to me because there aren't really perfect screen caps available and I think you have put together the best sources in this thread. The screen caps that exist show the low res that we have to work with, and reveal the inconsistencies the game designers programmed into the game. 

 

The Wicked Armor outfit is the best commercially available -- on ebay there are copycats who use the WA photos illegally -- and I believe the WA can and should be approved right out of the box if you have the proper gloves and boots. As an approved Vader, the thought of an approvable costume out of the box for under $500 is astounding. 

 

What you have created here, in my opinion, is what it will take to get to Level III approval.  You will have the most accurate interpretation of the KOTOR II in existence.

 

Local GML's can't approve the KOTOR II, and the CRL is still incomplete.  While I see where you are going with this, I hope the CRL doesn't force mods to the mask and pleats for basic approval.  Your mods and work on this is AMAZING, but doesn't it really create the standard for Level II and Level III? 

 

I've spoken to Rob and Melanie at WA and finally decided on COTF Darth Nihilus after they offered to make one (the web site shows them as sold out).  There are more approved COTF DN's out there, and they only require local GML approval because the CRL is defined. 

 

You are doing groundbreaking work with KOTOR II.  Keep it up! I'm following with extreme interest because my wife may end up with a KOTOR II from WA.

 

Thanks for doing the deep dive on this. Everyone is better off because of your efforts.

 

Dave

 

Thank you for the compliments.

 

With regard to the in-game model of Nihilus, it definitely screams early 2000's era of cloth movement and texture modeling techniques where the entire 3D object model is "skinned" to a skeleton and animated frame by frame depending on what animation is being executed. As opposed to current games with defined objects on a model that can dynamically move based on the simulated physics determined by the objects characteristics (cloth, hair, chains, ropes, etc.). 

 

I could see where things like the way the cowl lays/droops below the neck being a higher tiered approval option, but I feel like the look of the mask and the crinkling of the shoulders of the cape should probably be standard in the upcoming CRL changes. That's all up to Nina and the Legion crew to decide, though.

 

 

Just my personal opinion based on being able to find the consistent in-game source material, but the pleating on the skirt is also quite visible as well. But how far does one go with a video game character model from the early 2000's vs an on-screen, tangible costume such as a TK from ANH for a CRL, I get it. I definitely see both sides.

 

Honestly, the modifications to the WA KOTOR II mask was very straight forward. I used a dremel with a 1/8" cut diameter ball burr bit to take sections off and apoxie sculpt to build sections up, then just paint it. I'm confident that you could take on that challenge; especially with the experience of a ROTS Vader. 

 

Again, thank you for the kind words and if you have any questions about the way I made modifications to the WA KOTOR II Nihilus, feel free to message me or send me link to a build thread here, etc.

Edited February 29, 2020 by TeaJay

[TeaJay]

After building this years ago. I finally got the opportunity to wear it to an event. I'm happy with how things turned out with getting the electronics wired up and hidden in the costume for his voice. Gotta love the arms crossed power stance 😂

 

 

[Gomcse]

Wow, you look great! Nice to see this thread get some life again. 

[DarthValkyria]

If folks wanted to submit for a CRL update with more details, I'd be all for it. 

[TeaJay]

I slightly adjusted the fit of my hood/cowl so that I could hide an aker speaker below my neck so that the voice sound effects come from my mask area. Other than that, the costume is the same from when we updated it a few years ago. I am willing to help with writing anything that you feel has information gaps. What are you looking for to finalize the CRL to change from gray to green? Is it specific variance between the box art and the in-game model?

Edited September 6, 2022 by TeaJay

[TeaJay]

I think the big thing for the current CRL is that the mask that is attempting to mimic the box-art here:

 

https://databank.501st.com/databank/File:Nihilus_KOTORII_mask.png

 

Needs an updated photo to lower the tops of the red markings to be parallel with the silver center. The red mask details need to be parallel with line C.. and maybe reducing the brow intensity on the box-art CRL mask. Unfortunately, I do not have a version of this specific mask. I figured you'd at least need that addressed before the CRL could be deemed fully completed.

 

Here's the references.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by TeaJay
updated imgur reference

[DarthValkyria]

The problem comes in that there wasn't a cohesive concept of reference requirement when this costume was approved. It is why the COTF Nihilus is actually an amalgamation of 3 almost completely different sources (box art, minifig, and 3.75" fig). 

There's a line where it becomes logical (and practical) to update certain costumes for specific reference inclusion and exclusion, and where it becomes downright impossible. COTF Nihilus will pretty much never be capable of accuracy to any specific reference, but this one *might* be able to. 

If you are wanting to look into the possibility of it, we can definitely pull together a think tank of the DL, XO, advisors, Det LMOs, and those wanting to be involved in this, but we need to be sure we want to go down that road before we start as we can't do half-assed CRL reformations.

[Negotiatormustard]

5 hours ago, DarthValkyria said:

those wanting to be involved in this

I would be more than glad to work along the new standards for this costume as I am currently working with a seamstress to make my costume (so no WA). I am trying to find as accurate parts as possible.
Currently sourcing the gloves but I think just found the right one for me (40cm long which reaches just below my elbow by 1 inch, sheep skin without a giant flare at the opening) 

[DarthValkyria]

We need a completed costume to work off of for any changes (can't change text without accompanying photos to match), so when we have a completed costume from head to toe, we can get this going.

[TeaJay]

22 minutes ago, DarthValkyria said:

We need a completed costume to work off of for any changes (can't change text without accompanying photos to match), so when we have a completed costume from head to toe, we can get this going.

The in-game model is what my costume was based off of, mask and all. The only two differences for this KOTOR 2 version is the slight variations in the mask from the box art vs in-game model. 

 

There's plenty of references for this character, at least in my opinion, from the screenshots in my posts from a few years ago. If needed, people could load up the 3d model assets from the game and view them that way...

 

I did a lot of pixel counting to figure out obi width based on environment height, character model height, etc. Those were updated in cm on the CRL.

 

I still come back to what specifically needs updated to satisfy fully completing it? It would be nice to have two versions to toggle like you will see with some of the Imp Officer uniforms that have slight variations...

One with the in-game mask and one with a correct box-art mask.

 

It would be great to see someone make this costume with a heavy cotton that hangs significantly rather than polyester that you see even with my current CRL photos that were updated a couple years ago. 

 

As you can see I'm completely fine with getting super critical with even my costume. I do think the level of detail in my build is not what most folks pay attention to and likely should be required to do..down to the pleating and bunching of shoulder fabric (forcing it from drooping onto biceps), the skirt, etc.

 

Again, would be great to have an alternate model with that specific correct box-art mask. Maybe even updated photos from me at some point, as I feel like my recent photo, I seemed to have filled out the costume a bit better than when I helped with CRL photos a few years ago.

[DarthValkyria]

Yeah, as with before, whatever people feel like contributing, we can do. 🙂 

[Negotiatormustard]

1 hour ago, TeaJay said:

 

 

It would be great to see someone make this costume with a heavy cotton that hangs significantly rather than polyester that you see even with my current CRL

My fabric choice will be a heavy cotton or wool (just like a Vader cape)

I just need to see which feels better and looks better 

[DarthValkyria]

That might have too much texture to the knit for what is referenced in game.

[TeaJay]

1 hour ago, DarthValkyria said:

That might have too much texture to the knit for what is referenced in game.

That is a very good point actually. The texture should be very flat and simple, but with at least some weight to the cowl area of the hood so that it collects properly around the neck and chest. I had to add in lots of pins and sewing to get my cowl to fold to mimic as seen in-game below.

 

 

[Negotiatormustard]

2 hours ago, TeaJay said:

That is a very good point actually. The texture should be very flat and simple, but with at least some weight to the cowl area of the hood so that it collects properly around the neck and chest. I had to add in lots of pins and sewing to get my cowl to fold to mimic as seen in-game below.

 

 

So any fabric recommendations?

 

[TeaJay]

1 hour ago, Negotiatormustard said:

So any fabric recommendations?

 

To be honest, I haven't been to a fabric store in about 2 years. So I would have to dig around at some point. I would imagine possibly a non textured, flat black quilting cotton may work... but I would really have to see and touch options in person. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by TeaJay

[Negotiatormustard]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:12 AM, DarthValkyria said:

If folks wanted to submit for a CRL update with more details, I'd be all for it. 

My wicked armor cover art mask should arrive in a few weeks so I may be able to help with a photo for a mask opinion (if the detachment decides there will be 2 different versions, one based on the in game and one based on the cover art). Also my costume should be ready in 2 weeks.  Sadly 501st approval with my current garrison is out of the equation due to many misunderstandings and costume bashing.  I am not sure if I could work around this somehow as I am really a huge fan of Nihilus and I am trying to perfect this costume. I also thought about cross applying as I live near to the border of another country and some members of my garrison are from said country.

[TeaJay]

Hi all that have been following this thread over the years. I've decided to sell this costume due to having to wear glasses nowadays and I do not have any interest in wearing contacts, so wearing such a snug fit mask is a challenge.

 

Here's a link to the sale thread: 

 

[DarthValkyria]

As an option: We've utilized a previous pair of glasses to have the lenses removed and attached to the mask semi-permanently. If you want to sell, that is obviously your prerogative, but there are options! 

[TeaJay]

5 hours ago, DarthValkyria said:

As an option: We've utilized a previous pair of glasses to have the lenses removed and attached to the mask semi-permanently. If you want to sell, that is obviously your prerogative, but there are options! 

That's not a bad idea, I do appreciate the suggestion, Nina, but for now I will still offer this up for sale. I may be selling other helmeted costumes that are too tight fitting for glasses and focus on costumes with less face coverings.

[TanRu]

I bought it! Been thinking about Nihilus for a while, so I couldn’t pass this up. Stand by for many questions!

[TeaJay]

11 hours ago, TanRu said:

I bought it! Been thinking about Nihilus for a while, so I couldn’t pass this up. Stand by for many questions!

 

Looking forward to the questions, I'll try to keep an eye out! Once it arrives, give it a try on with the boots you plan to wear. My recommendations for hemming the skirt and cape up would be to wear your boots with the costume and mark the fabric just so the cape hovers right at floor level and the skirt just rests on the tops of your boots. There will be wiggle room for each starting with getting a good hem location that will adjust for your height within about 1 or 2 inches; my point is to leave a little excess and you can always pull the skirt up closer to your belly button or the cape deeper (farther forward into your outer tunic)... just in case you gain a bit of weight or decide to wear layers of clothing underneath for those colder troops.

 

You'll see that the cape is attached to the outer tunic via keeper style lapel pins that use a small hex wrench to unlock. They look similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Lapel-Pin-Locking-Backs-Keepers/dp/B007IU94Z2 -- I was trying to hunt down the hex wrench to toss into the box for you but I have not been able to find it, but its a standard size tiny wrench.

 

These locks can been opened so that you can remove and adjust the position of the cape relative to your needs for the outer tunic and then re-fasten them where you need it allowing the costume sizing to be pretty versatile.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by TeaJay