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Costume Standard: Mask Forehead: Red vs. Silver vs. None


DarthTagion

Which option, based on information presented/known is best?  

6 members have voted

  1. 1. Which option, based on information presented/known is best?

    • Silver
      5
    • Red
      1
    • No-Forehead
      0


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As we move along and more materials and sources become available some times we learn things we didn't know about costumes.

 

One thing of a bit of issue is the forehead of the mask. The masks historically have been seen with both silver/gray and with red foreheads. As a bit of stomping point it shouldn't normally be seen much buuuuuuut, for the sake of accuracy I'd hope to get a push toward some standardization.

 

That being said, I don't think my own single opinion on the matter is enough to make a change or push like that, not when it comes to a color choice.

 

Also, we likely need to update the list of source material to include more recent additions.

 

I'd like to put on trial the forehead of the mask. Let members submit their evidence and make their case.

 

Rules of Engagement:

 

Only submit credible sources of work (no fan art).

 

Be polite

 

Objective.

 

 

Red:

120px-KOTORCG_art.jpg

This one?.?.

RevanconfrontsSithEmperor.jpg

108px-Revan_chokes_officer.jpg

 

Silver:

200px-RevanIsBorn-KotOR42.jpg

250px-Revanfindsmaskblank.JPG

120px-Timeline8.jpg

120px-Revan_and_T3-M4_TERC.jpg

120px-Birth_Darth_Revan_Darth_Malak.jpg

 

 

None:

250px-RevanTOR001.jpg

While I am a strong fan of the idea of moving to a mask-less Revan option, the outline presented here implies there's nothing there! But that also brings up the point of the "black side panels" which I'm also unsure of.

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I think Silver. For the most part Revan was "Darth Revan" primarily right before the Jedi Civil War (KOTOR). From a cannon aspect everything that follows (no mask version) he would be considered a "good guy" thus would not qualify him as a 501st costume.

 

So we have to look at the masked version of Revan when it comes to 501st costuming standards. In KOTOR I remember him having a silver forhead and not a red one. So my opinion is we go with silver forehead. But that is just me. (I will find a screen cap when I am at home, uploading photos to a forum over the phone is a pain).

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Thanks for your input. I'd love to hear from anyone else interested in piping up as well.

 

I'm torn all things considered. The more images I sought out, the more the water turned muddy.

 

I don't think the direct result of this post is to get a hard answer, but it could be used to help glean some insight if we later have to discuss it.

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Guest Kilryth

Somehow I missed out on the poll... latecomer here! lol.

 

I definitely think the Silver is the way to go for the forehead... though there's no denying that there's some red overlap. My favorite reference image so far has been the cover of the 'Revan' book. I feel that it stays true to KOTOR's design, but adding more life-like detail and resolution that the game couldn't. You can see in the 'Revan' book cover (posted by Tagion) that the Right side of his forehead (from his POV) is gray/silver.. but there's some red overlap above the visor in other portions of the forehead. The only references I've found showing otherwise have been non-canon images and collectibles based on the original artwork.

 

As for the black panels of the mask, I think this should be left open. I personally think that the black panels are part of the mask, as the shading and 'texture' of the artwork is more similar to that of the rest of the mask than it is to the fabric textures of the artwork of in-game rendering. As a Mandolorian fan (and a Merc), it also does not make much sense to me that the Mandalorians (who he took the mask from) would use a mask that does not cover the cheeks. They are fond of using body armor and protecting vital parts; I can't see them leaving off that large of a section of the face. However, I still think this should be left open to the costumer to decide, since it is still not 100% clear... and this is not a very noticeable piece.

 

Although you didn't bring it up, I noticed that the KOTOR comic book portrays the mask as a partial helmet in a reference image or two (forgot which issue). KOTOR and TOR both directly conflict this by both calling it a 'Mask' and showing 3 (or more) instances of the wearer putting on and taking off the mask as a.... mask, not a helmet. I brought this up because there is a Full-Helmet version of the Revan mask on ebay. It looks great, and no one will know whether you have a helmet or mask on to begin with, so it isn't really worth discussing. I just thought I'd bring it up while we're on the subject. :)

 

Honestly, I think both of these options (the forehead and panels) should be added as 'Upgrades' that make your costume higher up on the 501st food chain, much how there are higher levels of movie costumes and how the lightsabers are treated.

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I believe the mask originally had a red forehead, but that the paint on the forehead weathered down to a base metal color as time went on. So for me, personally, I think having splotches of red on the forehead make sense and should be acceptable, but it should be obvious that the forehead is heavily weathered. That's just my own artistic interpretation, though.

 

Edit: I'm not sure if mask-less Revan would be a good thing for the 501st. The mask defines Revan as a Sith Lord, and the only time you ever see him unmasked canonically is when he returns to the light side. Not to mention it helps female Revan costumers adhere to the canonical interpretation of Revan as a male character. Although the mask definitely will not stop me from wearing yellow contact lenses... muahahahaha.

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Good morning,

 

For the 501st, protocol is to default to the originating reference for a character. When a character grows in popularity, folk will seek to define minutia. This is well and good. I recommend starting at the source, in this case the base model for Darth Revan from KOTOR;

RevanMask.jpg

 

The examples in the first post of this thread, LFL branded and all, constitute another form of fan art, where gifted artists draw from a popular character and make slight alterations either to make a character their own or out of lack of research.

 

This is how a comic character’s details shifts from one issue to the next, how a video game character varies from platform to platform;

hqdefault.jpgSithStalkerCloseUp.jpg

Sith "Stalker" Wii vs the character defining model used in XBOX/PS/PC/ versions.

 

Polls are suspect to popularity and the information presented. While it takes a second to click based on given information, it took me a hour to research and find the images for this one post.

While I think it would be cool to match the screen shot for under the mask, I believe that the suggestion of the same as an approved costume variant will be met with resistance by the 501st membership team, in much the same way a helmetless Boba Fett submission would be. Over tyme, even that could change.

 

Be well,

Thomas

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I do like your comment about the weathering aspect. The way Rob paints them has a sort of blend to it and I'm personally a fan of that look.

 

Edit: I'm not sure if mask-less Revan would be a good thing for the 501st. The mask defines Revan as a Sith Lord, and the only time you ever see him unmasked canonically is when he returns to the light side.

 

I do agree it certainly is a major key aspect of the character. But the events of the SWTOR storyline blur the line and I am personally in the camp that at the end he's dark as night by the time he is in control of the Foundry. He's mask-less until the final battle.

 

Not to mention it helps female Revan costumers adhere to the canonical interpretation of Revan as a male character. Although the mask definitely will not stop me from wearing yellow contact lenses... muahahahaha.

 

While I agree it helps a lot, Amidala is proving that mask-less gender issues aren't a problem, she's doing awesome stuff with non-masked Starkiller.

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Good morning,

 

For the 501st, protocol is to default to the originating reference for a character. When a character grows in popularity, folk will seek to define minutia. This is well and good. I recommend starting at the source, in this case the base model for Darth Revan from KOTOR;

RevanMask.jpg

 

The examples in the first post of this thread, LFL branded and all, constitute another form of fan art, where gifted artists draw from a popular character and make slight alterations either to make a character their own or out of lack of research.

 

This is how a comic character’s details shifts from one issue to the next, how a video game character varies from platform to platform;

hqdefault.jpgSithStalkerCloseUp.jpg

Sith "Stalker" Wii vs the character defining model used in XBOX/PS/PC/ versions.

 

Polls are suspect to popularity and the information presented. While it takes a second to click based on given information, it took me a hour to research and find the images for this one post.

While I think it would be cool to match the screen shot for under the mask, I believe that the suggestion of the same as an approved costume variant will be met with resistance by the 501st membership team, in much the same way a helmetless Boba Fett submission would be. Over tyme, even that could change.

 

Be well,

Thomas

 

 

I appreciate you weighing in on this. I do know that red-foreheads have been approved in the past, which is why I raise the question. The poll was to get a general idea but not to use as a means of decision-making.

 

I like your reference with Starkiller, poor wii-users and to think I almost got it on that system because it had multiplayer.

 

I have not pursued the mask-less or working to help anyone interested in the SWTOR options/changes because Patch 2.2 was set to make changes to the image they used. They were planning changes to the models. I suspect the face wasn't changed but that remains to be seen. I have not been playing the game, and I have not seen new screenshots posted.

 

The question I raise then, which sort of hijacks this thread is: How then does it get decided for comic characters as to which image is correct? Are they not all considered C-Canon?

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I do like your comment about the weathering aspect. The way Rob paints them has a sort of blend to it and I'm personally a fan of that look.

 

I am, too. And as it has been pointed out, that's what the in-game model looks the most like.

 

Ha, now I'm imagining of using Testors metalizer paints to do the forehead, I could even buff out a shiny spot with that stuff!

 

I do agree it certainly is a major key aspect of the character. But the events of the SWTOR storyline blur the line and I am personally in the camp that at the end he's dark as night by the time he is in control of the Foundry. He's mask-less until the final battle.

 

It's hard to nail down Revan in SWTOR. I'm not sure he classifies as a Sith character specifically despite what happens...he seems like he's his own free agent. Given his past and how he walks the knife edge between light and dark, that's what makes the most sense to me. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SWTOR Revan in general not 501st approvable? I know that's a debate that has been going since the game came out.

 

Oh Revan, you are so complex and that is why we love you. :)

 

While I agree it helps a lot, Amidala is proving that mask-less gender issues aren't a problem, she's doing awesome stuff with non-masked Starkiller.

 

That is true. It's something I've been struggling with trying to pin down a "light side" version for the Rebel Legion, the "mask or no mask" question. I guess it doesn't really matter, since EU characters don't do canon troops anyway. Technically speaking, you only need to be male for approval, but for troops outside of canon troops, I don't think it's a big deal. I could be wrong on that, though.

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It's hard to nail down Revan in SWTOR. I'm not sure he classifies as a Sith character specifically despite what happens...he seems like he's his own free agent. Given his past and how he walks the knife edge between light and dark, that's what makes the most sense to me. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SWTOR Revan in general not 501st approvable? I know that's a debate that has been going since the game came out.

 

Oh Revan, you are so complex and that is why we love you. :)

 

While I agree it helps a lot, Amidala is proving that mask-less gender issues aren't a problem, she's doing awesome stuff with non-masked Starkiller.

 

That is true. It's something I've been struggling with trying to pin down a "light side" version for the Rebel Legion, the "mask or no mask" question. I guess it doesn't really matter, since EU characters don't do canon troops anyway. Technically speaking, you only need to be male for approval, but for troops outside of canon troops, I don't think it's a big deal. I could be wrong on that, though.

 

1. I had a long fun chat with Thomas yesterday and nailed a thing or two down. Ultimately: we can't nail anything down in this area at this time. For anyone familiar with the topic, patch 2.2 was supposed to do some changes to the Revan costume models used in his scenes, but to my knowledge, that hasn't been posted any where. I've not seen the new images anywhere. Without images, we really can't do much. Ultimately, a maskless option using "Kotor" armor is only going to be viable if the costume is 100% matching the SWTOR version (that's my opinion on what it would take, not an official stance). In short, what we really need is some new in-game reference because all posted videos and pictures seen so far are from the old version.

 

2. You're very much right SkySith, and I will answer in the same way I would someone asking about a lightsaber: It's really up to the folks you troop with locally if it's not a 501st Canon event. I would safely guess with regards to a female chest piece, mask-less option or otherwise that the best bet is to get photos of what you plan to wear/do and shoot it to your Squad/Garrison CO and GML for an approval much like what a lot of our local Mandalorian Mercs and other folks do if they want to come to an event. I'll reference SL-9833 Mathias Bastyr and his tattoo project/shirtless Darth Maul as being not approved (yet) but going to events with folks. Do it awesome, do it well, and make sure folks locally are okay with it. Just understand that local approval isn't inherently Legion approval.

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1. I had a long fun chat with Thomas yesterday and nailed a thing or two down. Ultimately: we can't nail anything down in this area at this time. For anyone familiar with the topic, patch 2.2 was supposed to do some changes to the Revan costume models used in his scenes, but to my knowledge, that hasn't been posted any where. I've not seen the new images anywhere. Without images, we really can't do much. Ultimately, a maskless option using "Kotor" armor is only going to be viable if the costume is 100% matching the SWTOR version (that's my opinion on what it would take, not an official stance). In short, what we really need is some new in-game reference because all posted videos and pictures seen so far are from the old version.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt they will release any better images from the developers' side, since BioWare Austin is pretty much on skeleton crew right now to maintain the servers, and that's it. I'll see if I can get any good screenies of him the next time I play through the game, but it'll be difficult. I agree with you that if we were to do a maskless version it would have to be with the SWTOR armor. I'd still say he's not a Sith character anymore by that point, though... I have a rapport with several writers on the game, including the lead writer, and the consensus with them is that Revan's morality and character are up to the player's interpretation. IDK if that means we could really qualify him as a "bad guy" again in SWTOR for the purposes of the 501st. But that is a purely academic debate and I certainly wouldn't argue against more Revan rep in the Legion. :)

 

2. You're very much right SkySith, and I will answer in the same way I would someone asking about a lightsaber: It's really up to the folks you troop with locally if it's not a 501st Canon event. I would safely guess with regards to a female chest piece, mask-less option or otherwise that the best bet is to get photos of what you plan to wear/do and shoot it to your Squad/Garrison CO and GML for an approval much like what a lot of our local Mandalorian Mercs and other folks do if they want to come to an event. I'll reference SL-9833 Mathias Bastyr and his tattoo project/shirtless Darth Maul as being not approved (yet) but going to events with folks. Do it awesome, do it well, and make sure folks locally are okay with it. Just understand that local approval isn't inherently Legion approval.

 

My Garrison already knows I plan to do both versions of equal quality (I was actually talking to our PAO about doing light side Revan for the Rebel Legion this past weekend), and I wouldn't dream of trooping femRevan without their blessing. They seem really enthusiastic about it, though; I guess it adds a little variety and spice. Haha.

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I play SWTOR. In patch 2.2 they were supposed to make changes to the player worn Revan's Armor. Any changes they made were so minute that I didn't even notice them. In fact I was so dissapointed in the lack of changes (Wanted to see them put Revan's cape into the costume) that I switch out my players armor and went an entirely different route for my characters appearance. That being said, if need be I can quickly log in and do a run through the Foundry or Malestrom Prison dungeons and Fraps Scenes with Revan, then upload them to Youtube if you would require it. All I need is for you to give me the word.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A8ZWrKB8s8&feature=youtu.be

 

I am posting this link before the video is 100% uploaded. But I am tired and had a long day at work. I will check it in the morning to make sure the video uploaded correcting, and that the link is correct.

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